The History of the Vedas: Are They Divine Revelation? December 21, 2015 By: gaurarader 8 If you are a member of a Krishna cult or are considering joining one you either believe, or are considering believing that the Vedas, or more properly because Krishna cults don’t actually read the Vedas, books in the Vaisnava tradition are divine revelation. Specifically the Bhagavad-gita, the Srimad-Bhagavatam (Bhagavata Purana), and other Gaudiya Vaishnava scriptures like the Chaitanya Charitamrita. In fact the most basic philosophical principle of Krishna cults, and the broader Vedic tradition, is that the Vedas are the only source of knowledge. Just as one example, Bhaktivinode in his summary of the ten basic truths of the Vedas lists the first truth as being that the Vedas are the only source of knowledge. Is there any good reason to believe these books are anything other than beautiful poetic and philosophy sophisticated works of fiction? Before we get to answering that question it is worth noting that if you already believe in the existence of God, if you believe there is an ultimate spiritual meaning to the universe, and you’re open minded and sincere enough in your quest for God you are likely to find the Krishna cult cannon of religious book to be quite attractive. However if you don’t believe in God you are not at all likely to find the case for the divine revelation of these books convincing. The Vedas clearly state that they are the only source of knowledge, but of course using that as a reason to believe that the Vedas are the only source of knowledge is entirely question begging. It is kind of like me saying “I’m the only source of true knowledge” and when asked why I simply say “Because I have declared myself so.” Putting that aside, is there any outside justification for thinking the Vedic tradition contains pure, perfect spiritual knowledge about God? And of course the answer is clearly “No.” When you actually look at the Vedas (the original four Vedas, the Upanishads, the Buddhist and jain traditions, the Bhagavad-gita, the Srimad Bhagavatam, and the Gaudiya Vaishnava scriptures as a whole it becomes obvious exactly what they are: a series of religious and spiritual texts that build upon each other, the content of which is influenced by the scientific, social, political, and moral views of the people living in the Indian subcontinent over the past few thousand years or so. Later books like the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam Later books like the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam are clearly philosophical treatises aimed at attacking other philosophical and religious traditions that were popular at the time (Vedic demigod worship, Sankhya, Yoga, Buddhism). And the Upanishadic traditions and Buddhism were clearly responses to the prominent Vedic tradition. As the millennia go by the philosophy and the theology gets more complex. The morality becomes more evolved but there is no reason to think of these things as being mysterious, magical, or divine revelation. Human beings are pretty amazing. And you give them thousands of years to build a philosophical tradition and they can come up with some pretty cool ideas. Undoubtedly Indian civilization was incredible. Was it more incredible than other civilizations around the world? Maybe, but I don’t think that really matters much. Certainly there is nothing, looking at the history of India that is beyond historical explanation. There is nothing in the Vedas that is clearly divine revelation. And beyond that Vedas are clearly contain ideas that are morally repugnant. And beyond that Vedas are clearly contain ideas that are morally repugnant. The caste system, the systematic subjugation of women give plenty of reason to think that Vedic scriptures while being incredible human achievements are not divine revelation. Share this:Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Related Previous post Is Iskcon a Cult? Next post On Leaving ISKCON by Steven J. Gelberg 8 Comments Edith: The Hare Krishnas continually refer to “the Vedas” as the ultimate and unchanging authority on everything. But you and others who’ve been involved say they don’t actually read the Vedas as a whole. They just pick out certain parts–principally the Bhagavad Gita, the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Chaitanya Charitamrita. Obviously, there are vast tracts of the Vedas they don’t support, and would actively disagree with, if they know anything about them at all. So how do they justify this constant refrain that it’s “the Vedas” they follow, and which everyone else should follow? Especially when what they actually follow is one man’s very idiosyncratic interpretation of those few texts they recognise? What’s the criteria for deciding which portions of the Vedas are legitimate and which aren’t? And how do they respond when called on this very selective orientation to “the Vedas”? Also, Prabhupada obviously put great store by statements in the Laws of Manu that denigrate women and say they should never be allowed to be independent. But he felt free to totally ignore most of the rest of it, including the parts that condone eating the meat from animal sacrifices. If he considered the Manusmriti part of the Vedas, and if the Vedas are divine revelation, then, again, how is the obvious question answered as to what the basis is for him selecting which parts he takes seriously and which parts he ignores? October 3, 2017 - 9:24 pm Reply Nemi: Always judge by action. For millenia Indians lived peacefully with their vast beliefs, until the rise of Christianity and Islam. When Indian literature was discovered by the westerners (who were mainly christians) they attempted to learn the advanced Sanskrit, and tried to twist things out of proportion to serve their agenda. Now they also tried to to translate Indian scriptures and it is known that they’ve injected their own concepts and opinions and poisoned up the texts. In some cases going so far as to say Brahmins ate meat!!! No true brahmin eats meat. Every true Hindu knows this. The Vedas give all humans on various levels of intelligence a guide. Ideally we should not eat any meat. If we can’t all be vegetarian then there are meat choices, no cows, as these animals are most dear of all quadrupeds, no pigs, as these animals are full of worms living in filth and eating each others faeces. Sacrifice the animal with a prayer first, (which means I take your life this time, next you take min) therefore, only eat meat if you really have to, otherwise you are building your karmic cycle. Try to avoid killing as far as you can. It does not condemn people and doom them to infinite hell. When Krishna appeared, He said to simply offer Him, a leaf, fruit or flower. He said He is the Sacrifice and the Sacrificed, therefore in Krishna Consciousness they don’t just say Thank you God for this meal, and dig in. They offer the food to Him and then eat the remnants as Prasadam, which is a a more kindly gesture. If you gave some a cake and they just gobbled it up in front of you, you’ll be happy for them they enjoyed it. But you’ll be more happy with them if they also offered some back to you and ate with you. Right? Who wouldn’t? Now, I know the Hindu culture first hand. No meat eating (for the true hindus that is, not the pseudo Hindus who are a result of British and Christian propaganda), Brahmins revere the cow, they don’t eat it. Women have their rights and freedom, low divorce rates, respect 2 ways, Each do their duty to maintain peace and harmony in the home. Women are women, men are men. Women work if needed as society has changed and it has become necessary for women to be breadwinners. However, any women regardless of race or ethnicity has been oppressed in the history of mankind by colonisers and men in general. White men, black, brown men, yellow men, green men…. men oppress women by their own perverted concepts of women. From the Biblical ages to the modern ages, sees the same thing. Today it is still the same thing. Don’t Just put Vedic Philosophy on the hot seat, put them all out, why be biased??? As for the Vedas and which parts and which not… The Vedas are huge, and have a number of facets that no one man can know it all. Therefore it was divided into 4 parts. Much of the Vedas are in use by the world today. Uninformed people do not yet know it. They’ve accepted Veda through Science, Architecture, Mathematics, Yoga, Medicine, and so on. Further to the above, Krishna, the speaker of Bhagavad Gita, appeared 5000 years ago. Bhagavad Gita is the most cherished of all spiritual speak, as it came from Krishna Himself. The Srimadh Bhagavatam which is a massive set of books in itself is the cream of all the Vedas for spiritual knowledge. The Vedas contain all kinds of Knowledge and is the blueprints for human life on earth. However what Krishna delivers as the message of Godhead, is all that’s needed to know to evolve spiritually. No Bible does that, No Koran does that, because neither acknowledge the soul and what it truly is, and both claim final resting places to hell if the religion is not accepted, and heaven if it is. Both deny reincarnation and both in truth did not have knowledge on Purgatory… why suddenly now? November 20, 2017 - 3:05 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: NO they did not live peacefully and back then it was all dictatorships with little to no personal freedom… July 4, 2019 - 4:52 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: Ys devotees use the old kids thing “Cause I said so”… NOT scientific as advertised….. May 5, 2019 - 6:58 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: Yes and a big disagreement is that the Vedas do nto mention celibacy AT ALL.. lol There is reference to bhramachari school in sanskrit which they loosely translate as “celibacy” but all boarding schools have celibacy rules and the brahmachari vows, which is the bogus translation’s reference, is Not lifelong as many will leave and becoem householders and have sex…. what a scam…… Also none of the Gurus are confirmed celibates…. in order for that they would need to be monitored…. after all the abuses and covers ups, I would not believe them at all….. they are sexually active to some extent, even if there are periods of true celibacy May 5, 2019 - 7:03 am Reply Sebastiaan: You should read this here: https://returntosquareone.com/?p=2489 It does seem that you have an agenda. As explained in earlier posts of mine, ISKCON has been usurped. The founder was poisoned. These fake Guru’s (who think they are the succesors to Srila Prabhupada), do not follow the orders given by the founder. Some even have done terrible things like child-abuse. Still these persons walk around free in society, in ISKCON as well and even are again associating with those children whom they had abused! All the while the great democracies with the great laws which promote separation of state and church, freedom of prostitutes and homosexuality do NOTHING! If you know that ISKCON promotes all the bad things, CLOSE IT DOWN!!! Why do the governments around the world not do this? Can you answer? Also, check this site, it is a tribute to our good friend: https://sites.google.com/view/gaurarader May 5, 2019 - 8:50 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: Freedom of homosexuality? Many of the original devotees and Gurus were gay…. the government doesn’t close them down due to freedom of religion however many have gone to jail ….. July 4, 2019 - 4:55 pm Reply OneMind: Unfortunately, the “advanced human beings” are not interested to study the Vedas, and apply them in their lives. I am wondering why, and I was always wondering why? Are they hard to understand and hard to apply? In modern times this may certainly be true, because the leaders are not trained in the Vedic ways of life. And no one can understand Vedas without help of Vedic teachers. Such teachers are very rare in the present society, because it is not favorable to accept and follow the Vedas. Therefore the present society always tries to criticize Vedas and their teachers. As the society strays further away from Vedas such criticism will only increase. In the common sense there is no meaning of announcement that Vedas are not divine, if we have no knowledge or practical experience in Vedic ways of life, which is fully described in Vedic history books, and accepted as divine by Vedic teachers. 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