An Open Letter to all Krishna Cult Members January 25, 2016 By: gaurarader 43 It is time to grow up. It is one thing to believe ancient superstitions as many people in the world do. It is entirely another thing to destroy your own life and the life of those whom you love most, your children, based on ancient, and medieval superstitions. Simply put: There is absolutely no good reason to believe any of the metaphysical claims of the Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Chaitanya Charitamrita, or any of the other “Vedic” literatures are true. Give me one good reason to believe Krishna consciousness is true, that is stronger than all the reasons not to believe it to be true, and I’ll take down this website and start chanting sixteen rounds a day. When I was in gurukula we had a teacher who sincerely believed Krishna consciousness was the greatest philosophy out there. He taught us some basic critical thinking and logic skills in hopes we would apply them to thinking about Krishna consciousness, become convinced of the truth of Krishna consciousness and dedicate our lives to ISKCON. Despite him really believing what he said, it was really pretty silly. All ISKCON devotees believe Krishna consciousness to be entirely logical and rational but I would pretty much be willing to bet my life on it there is hardly a single member of ISKCON that has actually studied philosophy, much less taught it systematically to the members of ISKCON. 1966 was fifty years ago, ISKCON has grown but we’ve failed to mature intellectually past the 60s. It is seriously time that we admit to ourselves that we have given our lives for a lie. That there is no reason to believe any of it is true. Give me one and we can talk, although if you never read any Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Hume, Kant, Wittgenstein, or Quine, to name a few, how could you reasonably think your reasons have any value. Hey, I’ve been there. I dedicated my life to God on the flimsiest of intellectual grounds and didn’t look back for fifteen years or so. The philosophy I did read was after I wanted to become a devotee and that really doesn’t count for much. In my case I got a Philosophy for Dummies book, no joke, and decided that I was right in my choice to believe in God because the book introduced every major topic in philosophy and concluded theism is the way to go. The book was of course written by a Christian, so was far from objective. As absurd as that is it might be more than most Hare Krishnas did before they joined. Shouldn’t I have checked another book? Maybe one written by an atheist to get the opposing perspective? But here’s the thing, people don’t make moral and religious choices based on objective reasons. We do it based on feeling. We feel something is right. Then what we do is we look for evidence to confirm our belief. This is a problem. What we should actually be doing, especially if we are about to turn our entire life upside down, is look for evidence that might disconfirm our belief. That is the way science works, that is the way rational thinking works. Unfortunately, humans are usually not very rational. But you know, all this talk of rationality and reasons is really beside the point, right? Because Gaudiya Vaishnavism, following other Vedic traditions, rejects reason entirely. The very first philosophical principle of Gaudiya Vaishnavism is that we must accept the Vedic literatures as the only source of true knowledge. So, is there any reason to accept the Vedic literatures as the only source of true knowledge? Again, give me one and I’ll take this website down and start chanting sixteen rounds. I promise if you study the history of ancient India to the present you will see Gaudiya Vaishnavism in an entirely new light. Fundamentalism is ahistorical. When you see the historical context it becomes hard to accept a scripture as divine revelation. Add to that false astronomical views about our universe (about to be proudly displayed in the TOVP), racism, sexism, and it becomes clear that while the Vedic Literatures are incredibly impressive they are clearly not divine. They are the product of thousands of years of philosophical and theological writing, layer upon layer accreting on top of the previous layers to produce works that are often incredibly beautiful, profound, and moving, but clearly nothing more. So, if you’ve had doubts now is the time to explore them. Don’t be a part of the absurdity that others should be subjected to having the entire life destroyed by ISKCON. Don’t let you kids grow up believing utter absurdities that you believed at one point. And if you think I’m wrong prove it. Share this:Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Related Previous post On Leaving the Krishna Cult by Gaura Rader (Video) Next post Hare Krishna is Still Cult 43 Comments PREMA-KANTHA D.: try repetition of your speculative theories and or mindless meanderings regularly to the tune of 2 hours daily to see what is produced: then witness how much love & responsibility for our own actions is manifest. Is it possible to churn nectar from the ether and maintain a discipline without taste? The dogs may bark but the caravan will pass. love you a lot notwithstanding-Prema August 12, 2016 - 7:43 pm Reply Sebastian Cormier: I’d take speculative theories over unquestioning faith in old books on the basis of their boldness anyway.What you call mindless meandering I’ll call independent thought.He never said philosophical contemplation was his sole method of pursuing happiness.Theoretical philosophy should lead to applied philosophy and therein happiness is within reach. August 24, 2017 - 8:35 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: Yes you’d take that because you do not want anything perfect. Instead you want unhappiness and then speculate on it. But do you come for a world peace solution? It is already explained that there will be people like you who are bewildered. You are all and all out against God’s Supreme Will. In the mean time you get older, get sick and then you’ll die. Please explain oh, wise one, what happens after death and I want details!!! You mental speculators can’t answer this question. It is now 2018, what did your great western materialistic society do for humankind? The only think positive coming out of it was the Hare Krishna Movement in the 60s. That’s it, the rest is only suffering. March 28, 2018 - 7:33 am Reply Alec: You can’t answer the question about what happens after death, it is all speculation, And you talk of peace, but Prabhupada himself talked about a Krishna theocracy where non-believers are killed, is that the World peace you lot talk about? November 10, 2018 - 1:33 am Reply OneMind: Hi, Alec! I think the quote on Krishna theocracy is misunderstood. One who knows Prabhupada, by reading his books, knows that he was always repeating that we are not this temporary material body, but eternal spiritual souls emanating from the Supreme Soul. Our real identity is not either believer or non-believer, but the eternal servants of Krishna. When we forget Krishna our consciousness is covered by false ego, and we start thinking in terms of material body – I am man, woman, Christian, Hindu, strong, weak, smart, foolish, believer, non-believer, and so on. And because of this we are disturbed everywhere and always looking for the permanent peace. You can practically see that everyone in this world is looking for peace. Why? Because we are living in a foreign atmosphere. Bhagavad-Gita As It Is explains that no one can attain peace if one’s consciousness remains material. One has to purify his or her consciousness by the methods prescribed in Bhagavad-Gita, one of them is chanting Vedic mantras or in this Age of misfortune the best way is to chant a great mantra for deliverance or Hare Krishna Maha-mantra. This will “kill” or purify our consciousness which is now contaminated by false ego. This is meant by Prabhupada when he said that World peace is attained when non-believers are killed, and practically in this Age everyone is considered a non-believer, we all forgot Krishna, and everyone is suffering. So you don’t take this quote literary. Hope this helps. All glories to our eternal Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada. Thank you! Hare Krishna January 16, 2019 - 8:48 am Sebastiaan: Actually, there is no world peace currently because of non-believers. In previous ages, when Vedic Kings ruled the planet, these non-believers indeed were killed in War. These were the prescribed duties of the Ksatriyas who were also Raja-rsi’s. There were also Ksatriyas (so-called in name) but who indulged in non-vedic activities. They also were killed in War by the Ksatriyas who were Raja-rsi’s. In previous ages, the Varna-asrama dharma was followed. This is established in history, in sanskrit this is called itihasa. It is known as Ramayana (occured in Treta age) and Mahabharata (occured at the end of Dvapara age). It is in this time, that the Lord Himself appeared to deliver the message for all mankind (Bhagavad Gita As It Is). The conclusion of the message is to surrender to God, to release oneself of the cycle of birth and death (questions like: Who am I, why am I suffering, why is there injustice in the world, why is there no world peace etc are answered in the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, by the Lord Himself). Now, in this age (Kali, which follows Dvapara), the Varna-asrama system is not there anymore (it has actually vanished and on places where people say they practice it, it has been corrupted, see India). Only the chanting of the Holy Names of the Lord will work now. This will “kill” the ignorance of the masses and thus pave the way for worldpeace. It is this worldpeace Srila Prabhupada is talking about. It is up to you to believe it. I say use intelligence and think logically. The explanation as given by Srila Prabhupada in him unmodified books and also his lectures is so potent, that one has to be a staunch non-believer to disagree with it. It tried to disagree, payed the price and am now being humbled. Seriously, be humble in life and follow the sattva-guna rules in your life. This process is advanced also by listening to the pure devotee (Srila Prabhupada). Or learn the lesson of temporary material life by going through the miseries of it (this happens when you are not humble and do not listen to the pure devotee). I am sharing this information through my own experience. I did not listen and am now going through the miseries. Very enlightening and I hope to also become a devotee of Shri Krishna by associating with pure devotees like Srila Prabhupada AND by listening to his instructions as he gave for THIS AGE. Which is: Chanting Hare Krishna and to be happy. January 16, 2019 - 9:32 am Paul T. Harrison: Right or wrong aside, Vishal, what you just said was mean, and that is not spiritual, that is regular old school yard bullying because you can’t respond properly because you are in a cult…. People have death phobias so when you talk like that, then you are attacking people’s fears and that is not spiritual at all or even humane. July 4, 2019 - 4:32 pm Reply mark seghers: I have a question about how best to join Krishna consciousness. I have read some of the Vedic literature, and find much of it profound. But could someone on this site explain something to me? I am not a devotee. My wife is trying to be. Rather than spend time with me and our children, she is chanting and reading Krishna. Rather than watch a movie with us, or cook with us, or take walks with us, she sits alone in her car with her hand in a bag and sings, and sings, and sings. Her diet has changed. She buys only groceries that can be cooked according to what she is learning at the temple. She has alienated her sister and cousin — her closest blood relatives. She says she is doing the bidding of Krishna. When I press her to spend time with us, she does so reluctantly, the air sizzling with tension. She only laughs when she’s talking with her Krishna friends. So, my largest, looming question is, does Krishna want her to leave our family? In order to keep my family together, do I have to eat what she eats, sing what she sings, wear what she wears, socialize only with devotees, and instruct my children to do the same? February 25, 2019 - 12:38 pm Reply gaurarader: I’m sorry to hear that. That is unfortunately what happens when people join and why this religion is a cult. I’d be happy to try and speak with her. I’m not sure if there’s much you can do at this point, sadly. It sounds like she is already quite brainwashed. February 25, 2019 - 2:30 pm Reply OneMind: I am not a devotee too. But I will tell you honestly you are a lucky man. Now you can be a real man and show your wife that you still care about her, even she found love with someone or something else. Don’t pull her down and show her disrespect. Listen what she tells you. Ask questions and reciprocate with her if it would not harm you. Tell to your kids to respect and love their mom. She will appreciate this and your relation will be on much higher level than it used to be. This will be a very good start. Wish you all the best. February 25, 2019 - 4:39 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: Prema, that is simply mean and a very uneducated response to a literate letter…. FACE reality sometime will ya? Even Krsihna doesn’t like this bogus misrepresentations of a faith based belief system with outdated and lower morals than regular society as a science of spirituality and perfect absolute truth . lol the less educated devotees get mean right away and that happened to you here…… May 4, 2019 - 3:26 pm Reply Sebastian Cormier: There might be supporting evidence for some Gaudiya Vaishnava beliefs but not conclusive proof of the whole package.An example would be compelling cases of children’s past life memories supporting the notion of reincarnation.So there might be a baby or two in the bath water but we still need to throw out plenty of bath water.Philosophy allows us to pick and choose what we find of value in different philosopher’s teachings.Religion demands unquestioning agreement with a set of intellectual authorities.To be fair though I don’t think most devotees see their lifestyle as “turning their lives upsidedown.” Those who claim greater happiness from the practice are probably not lying. August 24, 2017 - 8:23 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: Those cases are only compelling and not scientific proof of anything. There are many reasons why the kids remember stuff other than that there is a spiritual dictatorship. Also tons of things make people happy…….. My bliss was part of why I suspended my disbelief of Iskcon and got me to take a much more moderate and educated approach than the movement talking points, which only helped to legitimatize the nonsense and abuses. Guess what? I still have bliss….. I think if there is a God, then He or She is for truth, or at least honesty…. May 4, 2019 - 3:30 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: Yeah, and notice how Iskcon grabs onto any sliver of out of context scientific finding that seems to confirm their bronze age nonsense as if they accept science….. same thing with celebrities… they cave right in and start bragging about how such and such got a book or whatever….. In other words they have tno solid footing…. July 4, 2019 - 4:36 pm Reply Nemi: When you are sincerely seeking God, He will find you. Your problem might have to do with your approach. People find more meaning and value to life reading the philosophy presented by Prabhupad as it is. They know instinctively that is is for them, and why wouldn’t it be? It is advanced and age old. You’re saying it is another layer on top of other layers, yes, it is. People are not all on one layer. To understand the SB philosophy one should have crossed through various layers, from previous lives, to very quickly, click with everything on the layer of Bhakti (love and selflessness). Krsna Consciousness is not a religion, it is a journey. What you put in is what you get out. If you do not chant, how will you connect? If you did chant and focus in those 15 years you say you were a part of the movement, then you wouldn’t be writing this stuff above. I personally know people who have had many phenomenal experiences being Krsna conscious. We know that phenomenal experiences are not subject to religious subscriptions. They are people dependent,so they can happen to atheists too. They can happen to anyone who seeks, or requests it sincerely. They can happen as a result of karma. In our materially happy times we seem to not call for God, but when you are aware that good and bad things are temporary you become more grateful and more conscious, and this inspires the beginnings of humility, which is a characteristic much needed in spiritual development. What KC does is what no religion does. It frees you to open your mind, to think, to question and find the answers which cannot be found elsewhere, but in the Vedic Philosophy. If you were a part of Krishna Consciousness at any time then you would by now know that Vedas mean Knowledge of All Knowledge, and you only need to look at the world around you and begin tracing your way back to Vedic Knowledge. Sanskrit, the language of God is the mother of all languages. It is also the only compatible computing language. Ayurveda, yoga, mathematics, science, music, tattoos, classical dance, ALL that you know has it’s roots in Veda. How come you don’t know this? Everything in the west is a branch out of Eastern Vedic Philosophy. In the Bhagavad Gita or Srimad Bhagavatam it states that King Kuru and his people set up the first cities over 100, after the flood. Indus History is being discovered and the earliest cities being excavated are many. This was the region the survivors of the flood settled on and the civilisation of mankind continued into this ‘modern era’. This is where the 7000 year old history is traced back to. Maths, counting, writing, trade, farming, the history and stories of Noahs Ark (Matsya Purana), etc – it was all a continuation of the previous age. You look on a map and you’ll see Uruk and Ur, plus names like Kush/ Kish/Cush, and many other biblical names that are sanskrit but distorted. I think what will help you is if you read the books Prabhupad wrote. I would also just stick to the simple prescribed method. Read (authentic Prabhupad scripture) and chant, and you’ll be happy. Life is only complicated by people who are ignorant, purposeless, misdirected, and there are too many of those doing abominable things. If you’re a religionist, try to be one who does not criticise others without first checking himself. November 20, 2017 - 12:48 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: Old is not better…. people are smarter now than then… they could not even figure out how to draw with dimension for example…… Life before relatively recent times was super harsh and filled with superstition because we did not know anything….. Iskcon thinks that they were smarter because they had supernatural powers, like the Avengers… it was the comics of the day…. May 4, 2019 - 3:34 pm Reply OneMind: Think about how much do we really know about the reality. And if you know better than someone else, what does your knowledge tell you what happens when you die. If you die, then your knowledge also dies with you. So what is the value of your knowledge? What does it matter if you are smarter than others if you must ultimately die. Does your death concern you less than being more or less smarter than old people? Is that intelligence? Today it is comics to watch materialistic people working so hard just to live better life than their forefathers, who also worked very hard for the same reason but in a different way, and then both thinking they are progressing and materially advancing, when ultimately both met with cruel death, and cruel death does not ask when, where and how. Have you seen such people dying or watching others lying in a death bed? The worst experience of all as it reveals the real truth which met everyone in past, it will also meet you and me today or tomorrow, and it will happen to all who are yet to be born. So what is the value of your material knowledge if you must die? It can not save you from dying. If you are truly smart then you will utilize your valuable time and try to find out the ways how to stop this process of dying. Can you do that? May 4, 2019 - 9:50 pm Reply Gaura das: You say there isn’t a single member of iskcon who systematically studied philosophy. I did. I studied philosophy in depth for 10 years before becoming a devotee. You say let’s discuss Descartes as if no devotee would be able to defeat you. You mention Wittgenstein as if he was some kind of genius. What about Sartre? Do you also put him up there? It’s condescendig on your part. It assumes all devotees are uneducated. Overall you seem to have some of the bad qualities you are condemning on your site. It’s irrational. May 14, 2018 - 2:07 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: Great point 🙂 Also, in the early days, I found many (mainly Jewish) educated devotees in NYC who were very knowledgeable of religions and philosophies and they did not make crazy claims, and always qualified their statements as belief or according to…. May 4, 2019 - 3:39 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Go investigate about the Zonal-acarya system after Srila Prabhupada left his body. Do not blindly believe the media. Use your brains. And again, it is ISKCON GBC not ISKCON who one should reject! Also, check this website if you really want to dive into philosophy: http://dialecticspiritualism.com/ May 6, 2019 - 4:08 pm Reply steven: don’t listen to anything these people are saying. Thank you for posting this. I am a neuroscientist who looks at life with objectivity and rationality. I also understand that there is an ultimate higher power. What i see in this comment section are people genuinely confused. They are seeking some desire, that being “the ultimate love from krishna”. Isn’t that right there a direct contradiction to their own beliefs? I do believe we need to focus on progressing our consciousness to resonate with God consciousness. There is a higher power. But why is it that people who devote themselves to Krishna even today end up raping kids? Raping dogs, the things they call all westerners due to our materialistic ways? This is overlooked? Its madness. Harmful madness. God exists. Is it Krishna? Well first understand that Krishna says “I have no name that you will understand”. But chant hare krishna more than you breathe. This is harmful. The people who portray krishna also… are people thousands of years ago who created a caste society, systematically raped woman, and viewed most races as inferior, due to motives serving to their own short term gratification. How can we not see this? It is Indeed 2018, as someone has said above. Just because there is preserved philosophy in their scriptures of a higher power and our ongoing mental jihad for controlling our brain for perceiving something more than instant gratification… doesn’t mean we indoctrinate ourselves to words spoken by those before us, with less resources, less education, with moral indignities. ALWAYS understand this. These people commenting, telling you they are devotees and you are wrong, you are atheist, etc… The more i understand hinduism the more i come across this type of morally wrong behavior. It is a disgrace to true self realization, although i hold dear many philosophical teachings of hinduism. This is solely because Truth transcends all bullshit. There are many truths to Hinduism, but one can learn about God being omnipotent and all powerful in many many different fairy tales and folklore. For me, I wish to be someone who understand how to use modern technology to further control our minds in the fixation for a higher consciousness for all With God as the apex. Most of these Hare Krishna people… I feel in my heart a “I will kill a soul in order to reach God” mentality mixed with “all humans are scum. This is the mentality to reach God” fixation. I give them my compassion solely because i understand what it means to be a lost soul trying to spark the conversation with God. Yet my desire to reach God made me educate myself. Not chant to myself and look at life as a spiritual caste system. Madness. Thank you for your story, it was very insightful, and these comments made me feel a necessity to share my thoughts, knowing these sorts of words hold weight rather than their confused bullshit. I hope you find more peace, because obviously no peace, spiritual education, or advancement towards enlgihtments will come from practices such as sense deprivation and loss of independent thought. What will 2 hours of mental speculation will give you everyday? A more refined and educated brain. Chanting words…oh… just understand the fMRIs of chanting ANY phrase repeatedly has the same conserved effects on the individual – decreased activity in the frontal lobe. You want to find God, by controlling ones senses… by decreasing the executive functioning region of the brain? But fuck science, because it is demonic. Yet the only two ways to reach God are devotional service and analytic thinking of Him (science). Just a big old clusterfuck of contradictions. Ones in which raping children is holier than eating meat. Just remember kind sir, that there is a place incomparable to this retched ideological prison. An eternal and all curious place. July 9, 2018 - 8:45 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: They are NOT vegetarians as they will eat whatever Krishna eats and Krishna is OK with killing animals in order to get ready for battle. War is bad too, but OK with Iskcon…. How exactly do you “know” there is a higher power? Maybe “feel” is a better word? May 4, 2019 - 3:45 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Every soul, together with its local community can decide (free will) what they want to do. It is a way of action. The result is already there (destiny). Just the way to it can be different depending on the free will of the individual and collective community. The individual and the community wants (free will) to eat meat. There destiny is already decided: they will have to take birth again. Depending on the level of breaking the laws of God, they get another body. Lord Krishna, through His agency, the External Energy arranges for this. To say that Krishna kills animals shows how you have investigated Krishna Consciousness. You have not done this properly. I advice you to check around the world now. Things are heating up, time is ticking!! May 6, 2019 - 4:05 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: Yeah, and notice how Iskcon grabs onto any sliver of out of context scientific finding that seems to confirm their bronze age nonsense as if they accept science….. same thing with celebrities… they cave right in and start bragging about how such and such got a book or whatever….. In other words they have no solid footing…. July 4, 2019 - 4:37 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Do not listen to this guy Steven. Altough he does make some good points, like blindly following ISKCON GBC is not correct, he then proceeds to attack the entire Vaisnava philosophy. This proves that he has an agenda. Have a read on Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Chapter 7, verse 15. These 4 types of men do not surrender to Krishna. Come explain properly why one should not chant Hare Krishna? Look at Western Society today, so much deceit, still this guy tells others not to chant. July 9, 2018 - 3:38 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: Off base here….. You put society down, but Iskcon is also part of society and would not exist without it’s support. The clear and provable truth is that Iskcon and Vedic old time morality has been way surpassed as far as the progression of society…. We do not believe in marrying thirteen year old girls like SP the founder did….. we do not say that people get black bodies because they did bad karma in last lives as SP did…. So I recommend Iskcon getting off it’s bogus high horse and start getting real… reality is not so bad as at least we can count on it. With iskcon we cannot even count on Iskcon having the same scenario about original sin fall down. May 4, 2019 - 3:49 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Read my earlier comment. ISKCON has been usurped. Your argument can be countered as follows: Society (I assume you talk about modern western society) is part of the planet Earth. And Earth is maintained by the Supreme Lord. Without the Lord, there would be no earth and thus no materialist society would exist on it. ISKCON was founded by Srila Prabhupada specifically for these materialist societies to become God Conscious again and become eternally happy. That some pseudo-devotees then proceed to poison the founder and usurp the movement is also a test for all those who are genuine. If you really want a solution to birth, old age, disease and death, one must investigate. I see no intelligent comment from your part, except one: One should watch out for ISKCON. I think you should make a distinction between ISKCON and ISKCON GBC! These 2 are very different. Check returntosquareone website to know more. May 6, 2019 - 3:52 pm Reply Kreemer: Wow. My name is Kenny. I was Jagadanamba. I still chant. But it is so strange looking back. I am a Christian. I am Hare Krsna. I am a Brahma Kumar. I have listened to Allah. I hear the Ancestors. I have done at least a decade doing each one. What I have never explored is Atheism… I need God. What I have found that Religious Fundamentalism is fake. Not everything Vaishnava is rational. There is a little bit of Truth everywhere. There is no Truth in anything that claims to be the only Truth. God is God. Love is Love. People are people. Prabhu was not always right. Honoring God is not possible when one lies. A lie is declaring something you know, at that moment, is untrue – or being silent when that silence implies the same. Something True in this moment may not be True in the next. Truth is beautiful. Unchanging Truth can only be owned and known by God. Human sexuality is not evil. Self expression is part of each souls’ obligation on this Earth. Honest self expression is never wrong. Being a Hare Krsna can ruin your life. Being a Christian can ruin your life. Being a Muslim can ruin your life. Being dogmatic – i.e. unyielding and unloving with the principals of Religious life ruins lives. Neither Krsna, nor Jesus, nor Allah came to ruin human beings. What I have learned is that when you look for God, God finds you. God changes…God is always the same. God travels with you. Things that bind and chain, always bring sorrow. What I have learned is that Science is not infallible – but Science is not wrong. In today’s age, information that can be transported and reproduced – indicates Truth. The Sun is not closer to the Earth than the moon. Women can lead men. Don’t give all your money away. Don’t lie. I wish I could really express what I mean to say. Leaving ISKON is not a bad thing. If it’s time to leave, leave. I can live a good life wherever I am. A happy life. A positive one. July 26, 2018 - 6:26 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Oh? A “good life”? What about the pains of birth, old age, disease and death? Is this happiness? July 27, 2018 - 6:23 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: Yeah Iskcon is not truthful May 4, 2019 - 3:51 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Correction: ISKCON GBC May 6, 2019 - 3:53 pm Reply OneMind: Krishna Consciousness is not about reason. It is about blind following which they call devotional service or bhakti-yoga. Take for example a deity worship. A gross example of blind following, since no one can actually see or reason if the Absolute Truth is present in the stone, wood or metal. There is no other evidence, except their guru instructed them to do so, whom they blindly follow without questioning. The first instruction their gurus will tell you is that you are a fool. (In Bhagavad-gita, Krishna’s first words to his disciple Arjuna is that he is a fool, although he is speaking wisely.) But, of course, before Arjuna became a disciple, he and Krishna were talking just like friends. The real brainwashing began after Arjuna surrendered his mind and intelligence to Krishna. Then Krishna began to clean-up all the previous ideas which were considered as a stool. When Krishna was done lecturing, he asked Arjuna if all the stool was removed from his mind, or anything remained left. And Krishna was ready to repeat this cleaning process, as long as it was needed. After all the stool was removed, Arjuna surrendered fully to Krishna’s will. This is the final instruction of Bhagavad-gita – to give up all your stool and fully surrender to Krishna. Bhagavad-gita does not teach to surrender to reason, but to surrender to Krishna, who is above reason. The same rule holds to surrender to one’s guru, who is above reason. And what Krishna cult teaches? To give up your reason, which is no better than stool, and fully surrender to guru, who is considered equal to Krishna, or a direct servitor or blind follower of Krishna. The whole Krishna consciousness philosophy is not about reason, but about blind following. Blind following is the final goal of Krishna consciousness. Different levels of reasoning for different kinds of contaminated minds may be used in the process, but only to achieve that final goal, which is – follow blindly your guru. Once you become a blind follower, you are considered a guru, a pure devotee (follower) of Krishna. Then you instruct your disciples that they are fools, you give them pills (medicine) by which they will gradually give up their reasoning, and start blindly following you. And how they are teaching you to give up reason? Because you have nothing to do with the reason. You are spirit soul, who is above reason. Take careful notice. You are not the body. And the reason, which is the function of mind and intelligence, which are part of your body, which is not you, is not part of you. And because you are identifying with reason, or giving faith to reason, you are suffering in this world of reason. (Despite all advancement of reason in the 21st century, people are still suffering the 4 miseries of life – birth, death, old age and disease). So, if you want to get free from suffering, you must give up your faith to reason, and you must blindly follow the guru, who is above reason. Because you are blind, only those who are not blind can deliver you from the 4 miseries of life. But if you still rely on your reason, and do not follow blindly the guru, you will not achieve the supreme goal – the abode of eternal knowledge and happiness. Is this a good reason to believe Krishna consciousness is true? No, because Krishna consciousness is not about reason. It is about blind following. If Krishna consciousness is about reason, they would prove that Krishna is right and you are wrong, and then you would be chanting 16 rounds a day without deviation. But, since Krishna cult does not rely on reason, it has nothing to prove, or make you to believe. You have to decide by yourself – to be or not to be the blind follower. That is the question. The same question Krishna asked Arjuna at the end of Bhagavad-gita. You only need to consider where you should place your faith. To reason or to guru. August 13, 2018 - 12:59 pm Reply Sebastiaan: People are expert in word-juggelry. The 4 types of men who do not surrender unto Krishna are so devious that they pretend to be a devotee and then sabotage genuine aspirant devotees. If an object (of stone, wood etc) is in relation to Krishna, in this case the arca-vigraha (His deity form in the temple), it is also Krishna. You must develop the eyes to see Krishna in the deity. Currently we do not have the eyes, we are not fit (pure enough) so see God. First become eligable to see God. In my experience, people do not want to be austere (I am also one of them) and want direct results. Becoming Krishna Conscious is NOT blind following. That is 100% logic. This is why, even though I am not a devotee, I am still inclined to atleast follow Srila Prabhupada’s order about following the 4 regulative principles and chanting Hare Krishna. Becoming a member of ISKCON and following its deviating GBC, however, IS BLIND FOLLOWING. When you are familair with Srila Prabhupada’s explanations, you will easily see who is following and who is not in ISKCON. And I am afraid to say, that, for so far I could see in my birthcountry, most of them, if not all of them, are blind followers and they do NOT know the Vedic philosophy as Srila Prabhupada explained. Whenever we were in the temple, all these so-called devotees could talk about was mundane topics. Very boring and disturbing and eventually I got so tired that I myself stopped visiting them. It is simply tiring to associate with such people. If the Guru is genuine (like Srila Prabhupada), the arguments/explanations he presents ARE logical and your intelligence accepts it. That is why you should put faith in Srila Prabhupada. If the Guru is not genuine (like most people after Srila Prabhupada), the arguments/explanations given do not make any sense and intelligence starts to doubt. This has been my experience. I thought of sharing it with you all. January 16, 2019 - 9:43 am Reply OneMind: Thanks! January 16, 2019 - 1:48 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: OR, they could simply be honest and let the chips fall where they may…… May 4, 2019 - 3:53 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: awesome 🙂 July 4, 2019 - 4:40 pm Reply franco daverio: I follow krishna consciousness since 35 years, I witnessed in my life so many miracles, so may helps from Krishna that i can not deny Krishna is God, I have to admit this fact. I can even write an entire book about all the incredible hepls I had from Krishna Prabhupada and devotees. Real intelligence comes from intense prayers, if we pray intensely and sincerely the truth appears beofre our eyes and also we can understand where falsity is. Otherwise all we can see are partial truths, or even worst we take falsity as truth and truth as falsity and we criticize, condemn, blaspheme even saints and scriptures. Remember, if we really want to deny God, He wiil satisfy completely our desire, sending us all the ‘right’ and ‘logic’ inofrmation to do so. Here my prayer, Dear Lord, please let me know the truth, let me live in the truth February 20, 2019 - 5:46 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: Your statement makes God into someone who is totally whimsical about our foundation infrastructure of consciousness. He “let’s” us believe false things? What parent would do that? Show me how Krishna is as responsible as a regular parent. What parent would give their child amnesia? July 4, 2019 - 4:43 pm Reply Sebastiaan: He does not let you believe false things. You want to believe those false things. Parents who are not following Sattvic rules, would allow their children to believe false things because they themselves believe in those false things. Parents can choose to follow Vedic rules and regulations but they choose to disobey and thus they get what they want: pain, because they want to associate with the human body which goes through the pains of birth, old age, disease and death. After death, again a birth in a different body (can be an animal’s body) and the individual goes through it again, and then again and then again, this is called re-incarnation. Use your brains, this makes sense. The way to get out of the pains of re-incarnation is given by the Lord Himself in the Bhagavad Gita As It Is: Chapter 18: Conclusion-The Perfection of Renunciation TEXT 65 man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru mam evaisyasi satyam te pratijane priyo ‘si me Translation: Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend. With: “you will come to Me”, Lord Krishna means: Get out of reincarnation in this material world which is full of misery (chapter 8, vers 15). Come back to me and be happy. So Lord Krishna is responsible for the eternal happiness of living entities. The materialistic parents in this world are responsible for alot of suffering of their own and their children. Which parent would give their child amnesia? Those parents who do not take up Krishna Consciousness. The child who has amnesia, got the disease because of results of karma arisen from their past actions in this life as well as actions performed in previous lives. These actions where not in Krishna Consciousness, thus, the responsibility lies with the persons parents (or those people whom the person held in high esteem, and followed). July 5, 2019 - 8:36 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: This statement: “Remember, if we really want to deny God, He will satisfy completely our desire, sending us all the ‘right’ and ‘logic’ information to do so.” is nbogus and a mind game manipulation. May 4, 2019 - 3:55 pm Reply Sebastiaan: The same can be said about western society, materialist atheist scientists and impersonalists. There are scriptures which confirm the statement: If you do not want to surrender to God, He will provide you with intelligence so that you will not become His devotee but a president of a country, materialist scientist, pedofile, homosexual, sense gratifiying male, woman, hindu, christian, very succesful and rich businessman etc. Any role you have in this world is there because we did not want to surrender to God. That’s it! See how nice and great God is? Now, it is a fact that we suffer, and there is pain in birth, disease, old age and death. We humans do not like these 4 phases in our life. The people occupying these roles: president of a country, materialist scientist, pedofile, homosexual, sense gratifiying male, woman, hindu, christian, very succesful and rich businessman are the ones who brainwash the innocent public in saying that one should enjoy life while it lasts or they say that they have cures for these phases. Isn’t that brainwashing? And then you dare to point the finger to ISKCON? Do it correctly and point the finger to ISKCON GBC! Are there solutions to: birth, old age, disease and death? Please come with valid arguments. Can you make me happy so that I do not have to become old? Or get some disease like cancer (I lost family members because of this disease and both of them took medicine, suffered alot and died anyway!)? Or so that I do not have to die? May 6, 2019 - 4:00 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: HI Sebastian 🙂 Sounds like you just haven’t done the work it takes to mature beyond these basic problems in life, so you took an easy route and let someone else do the thinking for you. Everyone faces these issues and some people have more death phobia than others, however the idea is to deal with life’s problems. If there is an alternate existence, then more than faith is required…. first it must make basic senses and not be contradictory… secondly it should be objectively proven otherwise categorized as a faith only and not established truth. July 4, 2019 - 4:49 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Hi Paul, These problems of life are there. Krishna Consciousness, as explained by Srila Prabhupada, helped me mature beyond them. The fact that you are not willing to accept following logical statements gives the External Energy of the Lord the the opportunity to guide your intelligence in such a way so that you can come up with such an answer. You say: “Someone else do the thinking for you.” Scenario 1 in my life: had to deal with some harsh diseases which affected familymembers. I see these familymembers as nice humans and they treated my so good when I visited them. They had to die because of the disease. Scenario 2 in my life: had to deal with the fact that when I eat meat, fish, eggs, vegetarion food (veg burger, soja etc), basically food which cannot (meat etc) and where not (vegetarian) offered to Lord Krishna, I enjoy it thoroughly. The next day however, when I go to the bathroom, it is so disgusting and I have pain. When I eat the offered vegetarian food, the next day, the bathroom visit is smooth! Scenario 3 in my life: I am someone who liks sex. I say this plainly. However, whenever I do it, after the deed, I am tired and I feel like that all my energy is gone. Also, there is no real relationship with the perticular woman with whom I just had sex. Just physical (bodily) attraction, that’s all. Scenatio 4 in my life: All money I have, or saved, I spent it. The western materialistic way of living has a hold on me on this. Now these 4 scenario’s are part of my life. Anyone can know that this will not end well and guess what? It did not end well! I had to go through some hardships. Thanks to Srila Prabhupada’s thinking, I saved myself, by following as much as possible the 4 regulative principles and chanting of Hare Krsna Maha Mantra. Also reading the books helps alot. This resulted in believing to aquire a fixed occupation, which is eternal. Not faith, which indeed is not established truth since faith may change (one may be a christian, then muslim, then atheist etc). The Introduction alone of the books of Srila Prabhupada: Isopanisad and Bhagavad Gita As It Is, is the beginning of the aquiring of the eternal fixed occupation (servant of Lord Krishna’s servant’s servants). The explanation makes perfect sense. When you do not want to understand this perfect explanation, the External Energy of the Lord will guide your intelligence in that direction. This is proven by your post. First, why not quote point by point, what or which part of Vedic philosophy does not make sense or is contradictory according to you? Start there, then talk. Second, which objectively proven, you mean to say: you want to see it through your eyes. You see some falled devotees and think that is proof that this Krishna Consciousness does not work. This is not a correct argument. First you should look in the mirror before looking at others. This mistake is easily made by conditioned human beings. I do it all the time. This is why I am contemplating to atleast associate with devotees and assist them, there where I can. We should first follow the 4 regulative principles strictly and chant a fixed number of rounds of Hare Krishna Maha Mantra daily. This must be our life and soul. Also, reading Vedic literature (Srila Prabhupada’s books) is of utmost importance to be fixed and get updated knowledge (from Lord Krishna, the Supersoul). Then you will get acquinted with the established truth, which is the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krishna. July 5, 2019 - 8:23 am Reply Leave a Reply to franco daverio Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Name * Email * Website Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.