Is Iskcon a Cult? December 21, 2015 By: gaurarader 63 You might see those people dressed in silly clothes singing and dancing on the street and think they are harmless but they are evil, they torture babies! Just kidding. The problem with Krishna cults is not that they are a danger to society or dangerous to people outside of the cult. Although there have been incidents of cult members killing others based on the a cult leader’s instruction, however that is not really what makes the Krishna religions cults. Krishna religions are cults because they are dangerous to the people that join them. If you join a Krishna cult your life will be forever changed in ways that are profound, irreversible, and not good. You will make massive changes to your life that will irreparably harm your career, likely permanently damage your relationship with your family and closest friends, and generally make you miss out on the best years of your life. The standard reply given by Hare Krishnas when faced with accusations of being a cult is to claim that their religion is an ancient religion practiced by millions of people in India. But of course ISIS is a sect of an ancient religion practiced for nearly two thousand years. The vast majority of groups recognized as cults have some connection to older religious traditions. What ISKCON members usually mean is that their religious movement isn’t something that was just made up in the 60s in the United States, which is of course true but meaningless. The real question is whether the organization is dangerous, is it likely to harm people? And the answer to that question is that it absolutely is harmful to anyone who joins the cult and it is harmful to their children as well. Keep in mind, if you visit a Hare Krishna temple, that the people you see there are only a tiny fraction of the people that have joined the organization. The vast majority have left. And many of the people you meet, especially the younger ones, will not be around in a few years. In addition to the fact that you will be harmed if you join the cult. The other thing that makes it very much a cult is the emphasis on worship of and surrender to the guru. Bhaktivedanta Swami, usually called Prabhupada or Srila Prabhupada, is very much a cult leader in the organization despite having died in 1977. All religions have sacred teachings which are supposed to be followed to the Bhaktivedanta Swami, usually called Prabhupada or Srila Prabhupada, is very much a cult leader in the organization despite having died in 1977. All religions have sacred teachings which are supposed to be followed to the letter but Krishna cults are different in that all of Prabhupada’s teachings are considered divine revelation and he lived a short time ago and all his words are recorded. He spoke on almost every topic imaginable so the guidelines for a follower of a Krishna cult are much more clear than those who Christians. Additionally, Prabhupada was a racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic human being who was very much a product of growing up in India in the 19th century. To accept his teachings on these topics as divine revelation is deeply problematic. But it gets worse than that in that in addition to Prabhupada being the cult leader each member is supposed to be initiated by a living guru. And the disciple is supposed to worship, bow down to, and follow every instruction of their guru. Some gurus are worse than others. Some blatantly abuse their power and position, but even with one of the “best” gurus, i.e. least exploitative, the entire institution of guru and disciple is utterly degrading, inhumane, immoral, unjust, and absolutely should have no place in the 21st century. It produces nothing but harm and psychological trauma for anyone subjected to this institution The other thing that is worth noting is that although Krishna cult members generally haven’t used violence it is absolutely not beyond the realm of possibility. There was one incident where Prabhupada talks about how when the Hare Krishna movement is big enough it will put guns to peoples heads and tell the to convert and if they don’t they will be killed. Then he and his disciples have a good laugh about it. Was he joking? Hard to say, but its not hard to imagine that someone might think he was being serious. Especially given the larger textual context of using violence in the name of God which is pervasive throughout the scriptures of the tradition. So, yes the Krishna religions is a cult. If you join a Krishna cult your life will end up significantly worse off than not joining. You will lose touch with your closest friends and alienate your family, which despite what the cult tells are actually the only people who will help you when the chips are down. The cult really just wants you as long as you are valuable to the cult. They will not be there for you when you are not. Your children will be worse off if you join a Krishna cult. You will accomplish much less in your career, if you are lucky enough to even have one at some point. You will earn far less money and likely end up in extreme poverty. And on top of all that you will make the world a worse place! And on top of all that you will make the world a worse place! The world has real problems and religion hasn’t solved any of them. Secular humanism has. It works slowly but it does work. Look at the history of the world over the past five hundred years or so. The world needs passionate political advocates for the universal human rights humanity, not people who live in a fantasy world and imagine they are making the world a better place with their absurd religious rituals and beliefs. Share this:Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Related Next post The History of the Vedas: Are They Divine Revelation? 63 Comments Nam: Hey sir, finally got around to checking this out. Very courageous for you to do this. One minor point re: a typo/duplication of text. Specifically; “In addition to the fact that you will be harmed if you join the cult. The other thing that makes it very much a cult is the emphasis on worship of and surrender to the guru. Bhaktivedanta Swami, usually called Prabhupada or Srila Prabhupada, is very much a cult leader in the organization despite having died in 1977. All religions have sacred teachings which are supposed to be followed to the” March 10, 2016 - 10:43 pm Reply XQ: Wow, this post is nice, my younger sister is analyzing these kinds of things, therefore I am going to inform her. April 11, 2016 - 1:37 am Reply Charlotte Lee: People try to say it’s a Hindu religion, but the founder said they’re not Hindu, and said general Hinduism is inferior. He said that they can’t read translations of books apart from his, and that his explanations which ranted on about his misogynistic opinions are more important than the original writings. He said Gandhi’s Bhagavad Gita isn’t accurate because it promoted peace. He said women have half the brain size of men and it was a lie about Marie Curie discovering radioactivity, yet they get state money in England to run a school. They try to make out it’s a Hindu school, but first places go to children from parents at Bhaktivedanta Manor. He also made predictions about there being a nuclear war in the 80s where Krishna Consciousness would take over. The moon landings were fake because people live on the moon with a higher standard of living than Earth. July 5, 2016 - 3:09 am Reply CedrickVSier: Many thanks for finally writing about >Is Iskcon a Cult? – Krishna Cult Awareness Foundation <Loved it! August 8, 2016 - 5:20 pm Reply Mark: This is an outright mistake or lie: “Although there have been incidents of cult members killing others based on the a cult leader’s instruction……” In one of the temples a TEMPLE leader did this. It happened in West Virginia by a very deranged man. May 19, 2017 - 12:59 am Reply gaurarader: I think the sentence structure implies that it was not a common occurrence. I believe there were at least two incidents in the WV community, and at least one elsewhere. But just to be clear, that is not the reason why I think the Krishna religions are cults. May 19, 2017 - 3:02 pm Reply A real hindu: This article is just a piece of anti hindu writings…..you people dont call a terrorist a terrorist…like u dont call hitler or churchill a terrorist christian….just because they were christians….bht you wud talk against a good guru(although i believe when christian took over iskcon after prabhupada death they made iskcon a psuedo christian organisation…..than came era of maligning iskcon followers……whether they are russian or american christian or christians anywhere they persecute iskconites….just because it is influencing west to follow a peaceful religion……do you ppl know wat iskcon is doing is done in india from centuries….do you think india is far behind in technology???(please do consider india is comparable to china only not britain or others)even when it was destroyed by britishers….. It grow up signifacntly on all terms now……thats the power of real iskcon….from scientists to doctors all believe in krishna god from centuries in india…… July 16, 2017 - 9:08 pm Reply Just Another Happy Humanist: Ahem, ‘A Real Hindu’…citations needed. September 22, 2017 - 12:00 pm Reply Ute: Thank you for writing this. I was involved with the HK got 7 tears and I am do happy to be free. It is a Cult January 4, 2018 - 11:20 pm Reply haribol: I took the time to read every article written with a open mind. I can only talk on my faith and love for krsna i take classes to learn but facts are facts and not one since i started practicing the hare krsna chantings have i felt that this is anything close to a cult.My personal thought is this follow what GOD you choose he calls us all in diffrent ways but being obient to the god you follow should come from your heart and it is hard to try to live by your faith , whichever faith you follow , BUT the indivuals who are strong enough to be as obient as they can should not get bashed or disrepected. The best thing i did was meet a devotee and start going to classes and leaning .. Devotes are all about peace and following krsna fully not just when they desire. January 10, 2018 - 8:30 pm Reply Milena: I am reading this post with an open mind, and I don’t belong to any religion whatsoever, but I respectfully disagree with this article, only based on the fact that it seems to be written by an extremely biased person who is clearly against Hare Krishna. Do you have any statistics or empirical evidence showing that Krishna followers have lower wages, more unstable households, and weaker relationships? When the author decides to give some REAL, CONCRETE and OBJECTIVE arguments I will consider agreeing with it, but I just can’t trust an article to be truthful when it starts with a line such as “They torture babies! Just kidding…” January 22, 2018 - 10:28 pm Reply gaurarader: Hi Milena, I appreciate your comment. I think it is important to not dismiss a person’s view just because they have a point of view. We all do. I certainly have a certain perspective. You can call that bias. I think I’ve been very fair in every critique I’ve ever made about the religion. There isn’ of data on the topic. I do social psychology and I’d be happy to study it but unfortunately that’s not the area I work in. Data on lots of questions is hard to come by. And data can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. Make what you will of this but I can say that I hear from people regularly whose lives have been significantly harmed and are now in the process of leaving the religion/cult. That is a fact. You have to trust me on that. I’m not sure what you want as far as real, concreate and objective arguments. This is a relgion that says black people are sinful and less than white people/aryans. That says that women are less intelligent. That says that the only way to be happy is by joining the religion and surrendering to God and guru who you should obey and worship. A religion that says you should never try to be happy and only strive to make God happy. A religion that denies the science is the best way to understand the world and says that we should only trust things written thousands of years ago. That people will be tortured in hell for have sex or drinking alchohol. Etc. Etc. Talk to people who have joined the religion. Read the things that are in the books of the religion. Don’t dismiss what I’ve written so blithely. This post isn’t intended to be stand alone proof that the religion is a cult. If you do some research I suspect you may come to understand what is written here. That is, if you are willing to be open minded and considered that it might actually be a cult. January 23, 2018 - 2:26 am Reply Feder: You should read this fantastic blog to understand the magnitude of the cultishness of this group. https://the-educational-blog.quora.com/Being-in-and-Leaving-a-Cult-ISKCON January 31, 2018 - 5:38 am Reply OneMind: Why would do you think it is wrong to speak about evil cults which are meant to destroy our lives? If they are not exposed, those who remain silent will be the most responsible for any harmful consequences to the new generations. They call their god Hare Krishna openly on the streets, sell their books and offer cakes with drugs which they call God’s mercy so that the most vulnerable will convert into Hare Krishna religion, whom they will exploit until exhausted, and meanwhile they will continue searching for the new fresh blood. I have seen that because I was also part of it, and the main reason which I left them. August 15, 2018 - 11:47 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: I agree with you, since that is also what I have gone through. However, when you are familiar with philosophy and when you have life experience (pains of birth, old age, disease and death) and you listen only to the ISKCON founder’s lectures, how come it makes sense? Do you like life currently? Where do you live? I live in a Western Country, we have it all here, so enjoy life. Still no happiness, why? Answer: chant Hare Krishna, and this is true. I agree with you, that ISKCON itself has been usurped, and now there are some terrible things happening there. That’s why people should be familiar with the books and lecture’s of Srila Prabhupada. This is what saved me! https://sites.google.com/view/prabhupadasoriginalbooks https://sites.google.com/view/criticizingiskcon If I have offended, please forgive me! August 15, 2018 - 1:54 pm Reply OneMind: No offense from your side. It is good that you find true happiness in genuine spirituality. However, the main point is that Krishna cult is an insane religion. It philosophy and practices are completely irrational and not favorable to the fulfillment of human life, both materially and spiritually, at least from the Western cultural background. The second point is that you cannot bring Krishna philosophy and its practices, no matter how genuine they are, within unfavorable conditions of Western countries. Possibly you can do that to only one or two chosen people having good births, but not to others, who are the majority. What happens is that some are aware of these weaknesses, and they know how to exploit the situation, for their advantage. They are not interested how to improve the situation and make it more favorable for the benefit of others’ material or spiritual advancement, but they will only impose the strict following of rules and regulations, which even they themselves are not able to follow, or are only following in the public, but in the private life, which they still have not renounced, they behave like those whom they are criticizing in public. Then you will find misuse, exploitation and hypocrisy of its leaders, gurus, so-called seniors and other profiteers, and then you will have a cheating religion or an evil cult. There is no place for such hypocrisy in the West, and it is good that Krishna cult is being exposed here. August 16, 2018 - 10:40 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: Yes! I agree 100% So I feel that the government must see to it, that the ISKCON, its GBC and their followers are genuine. Now it seems they are not! Also, the Krishna Conscious rules, when comparing with Western Society rules are like water and fire! The people who are supposed to be Krishna Conscious devotees must be follow it strictly and also be visible in society. Not so that they can be monitored (this is an added advantage) but because it is their job to be visible in society and every single person in society has a right to ask questions to them! Now when you go to an ISKCON temple, those leaders say: Do not ask questions, because that is a Vaisnava aparadha. Can you believe this? When you are familiar with Srila Prabhupada’s books, you’ll know that these ISKCON leaders are bogus followers of the Hare Krishna philosophy. So many followers they have and no one questions them? I am also disappointed with Western Society governments who do not monitor and take appropriate action! If one is a genuine follower as ordered by the founder acarya, the Hare Krishna Movement can make arrange for world peace. The philosophy says that all living beings are souls and not a body. It is through the bodily concept of life, there is no cooperation between humans around the planet. And now, the Hare Krishna Movement seems to be usurped by the bogus pseudo devotees who on top of that misuse people and treat them badly. This is not what is is all about! I thank you for your answer. August 16, 2018 - 3:09 pm OneMind: Today’s Christians or so-called Christians may not be what Jesus expected, but some of His relics are still available, in pure or altered form, which provide a clue for recognizing an honest person from a phony. From the Christian world view: Satan only cares how much you love him, he is never satisfied with your love, and he always demands more. A True God only cares how much He loves you, and He showed his love on the Cross. A False God cares only for himself, calls himself the only master, and others his servants or slaves. False gods, who are Servants of the False God create slavery, anxiety and exploitation of the world. Those who do not put faith in false gods, never imitate them. They praise a True God who is Jesus, our Savior. Those who praise a False God, they hate a True God, calling him Satan. And His servants they are calling also a Satan. For a servant is no greater than his master. If the head of the house is called Satan, how much more the members of his household! “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me” (John 15:18-21) The Western governments today are secular, and all their high-officials are servants or corrupted by servants of false gods, as explained above. They do not differ in any way from Krishna cult, except calling themselves democratic and secular, and not connected with religious or spiritual matters. They are bound by rules of law which are backed by mundane reasoning or so-called enlightenment, and not religious rule, which they call irrational belief or superstition. Similar to GBC in Krishna cult (ISKCON) who create new rules of law unsupported by Prabhupada’s instructions and Krishna’s instructions in Bhagavad-gita, which they also regard as irrational and insane. So you cannot expect protection from secular governments, as they are not meant to protect anyone. Since the governments are also led by phony Christians and phony Krishnas, dressed in a garb of secularists, they will sometimes cite the Bible or Bhagavad-gita, or become members of Church or Temple pretending to be great devotees and guardians of their religion, if they feel threatened by other faiths, or more specifically if their high chairs may be crumbled by those who would reveal the real Truth. Therefore the secular governments go hand in hand with the cults, if they are both supporting each other by holding their high seats. So on one side, Krishna cult is condemned by duplicitous Christian Society which compares them to Satan, and on other side they are accepted by them. But the reality is that a genuine spirituality will always be condemned by phony Christians and phony Krishnas, who are all members and supporters of secular governments. If you are a true disciple of Jesus or Prabhupada you cannot expect protection from the government or anyone in this world, but only a prosecution. Both Jesus Christ’s and Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are sharp like a razor, literally, and being a true disciple means one should be ready to put down all worldly matters, for the sake of their master. This comes gradually, as faith develops, but if you end up in Krishna cult you will quickly lose all your faith, and this is what happens in the Western Society, ruled by secular governments, under the protection of false gods, who are servants of Satan. Satan (or Maya) knows very well what they are doing, and their main purpose is not to make you spiritually weak or unqualified disciple, but to make you lose faith and hate Jesus or Prabhupada, and the secular governments are his instruments to fulfill their mission. The first thing in spirituality is faith. And Krishna cult is the best place for anyone to quickly lose their faith both in Jesus and Prabhupada. Here are my last words in this forum, “I might never become a true follower or disciple of Jesus Christ or Srila Prabhupada, but I will never lose faith in them, even I was trapped almost 40 years in Krishna cult. Satan, go to hell, or bury yourself!” August 17, 2018 - 12:13 pm Vichal: I would like to respond. I think the author is against Vedic philosophy and bases this on the Hare Krishna Movement leaders, post-Srila Prabhupada period but also by quoting Srila Prabhupada purports. To follow Brahmacari rules is a science. The moment you try to talk that down, it is proven, that author has something against Vedic philosophy. Please know that Srila Prabhupada was poisened and then GBC leaders took over and changed alot. So I am of the opinion that ISKCON today and since perhaps 1976 (when the disobedience of Srila Prabhupada started and when the poisoning started) is derailed. I to am a sympatiser of Srila Prabhupada’s Words, NOT ISKCON GBC. There are rules to follow: No meat, fish, egg, union and garlic eating, no intoxication (coffee, tea, Tobacco, drugs), no illicit sex (no sex outside of marriage and not for pleasure), no gambling. When you do not follow these rules in Western Society, how will the people treat you? All problems in Western Society today comes because of breaking these 4 rules. Maybe author should look into that. February 7, 2018 - 4:25 pm Reply Authentic Vaishnavism: I don’t feel he is against Vedic or any indian philosophy. he is not aware of the authentic Vaishnava lines in india and his only exposure is this iskcon group which is not taken seriously in india by traditional orthodox gaudiya vaishnavas. I feel bad for people who’s only exposure to gaudiya Vaishnavism, or any type of Vaishnavism, is through iskcon. there is a big world of authentic Vaishnavism in india, and none of it takes iskcon seriously. February 18, 2018 - 3:17 am Reply Inquisitive Character: Authentic Vaishnavism. Please intantiate some evidence about these alternative non-compromised and merciful lineages, please. Actually a bigger deviation in the authentic Vaishnava philsophy is one which involves the acceptance of wolves into the Vaishnava circle allows for devitation. Any serious yoga practitioner can notice the character/heart of someone almost immediate upon their entry into their association. There are plenty of Guru Narratives to support this. The fact that Prabhupada did not act to save his disciples from even the potential of these abuses shows just how misinformed he actually was about himself. He acted like a pompous king, but his effort to liberate others ended in hardcore failure and disturbed the flow of Grace into the world. If he really was what he said was, namely someone who has a spiritual connection of communion/communication with the all loving and all knowing God that same God would have simply told him. His grace was to give the mahamantra a bad reputation simply because of his ambition to rule over others, which is oft apparent in his attitutes towards disciples even. He selected those 11 at least as ritiviks, but could not see their potential scope for major failings in advance of their occurence, which proves that he had no real vision at all, merely book knowledge which was applied too fast for the worlds overall welfare. Be very suspicious of those who self-appoint themselves to such a high level and watch them very carefully. Very quickly you will see what’s really going on. March 26, 2018 - 3:33 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: Hari Bol, Please accept my pranams, All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I am not an ISKCON member, altough I did joined them before slowly disassociating with them after discovering some deviations. Now that I am not a devotee, but new to Vaisnava philosophy after I lost my job, shelter and everything else in this great materialistic western “civilisation”. Indeed it is so, that after reading Original non-modified Prabhupada books and listening to his lectures, you can easily see that ISKCON today has been infiltrated by sense gratifyers. So after gaining knowledge from Srila Prabhupada who got his knowledge from his guru al the way back to the Six Gosvamis, one easily sees that there is defiation from Vaisnava philosophy. Now another problem arise with people like you, who then blame Srila Prabhupada for all this. Do you know that we are in Kali Yuga? Do you know that there are constant attacks from the four types of people (Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Chapter 7, Verse 15) who will do everything (even pretend to be a devotee and pretend to follow Vaisnava rules and regulations to make a show? Do you know that these types of people always have sabotaged devotional service? That is the test! Srila Prabhupada may have known or not, his job was to spread Krishna Consiousness in Western Countries. Now another question: Did that succeed? How on earth did he manage to do what he did in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s? Ever think about that? How come people from all kinds of cultures, languages etc come to Krishna Consiousness, even today? Did you ever follow the rules and regulations? Did you chant Hare Krishna mantra? In Materialistic Western society, ones plannes to gratify senses fails miserably. Temporary happines can be achieved but thereafter only unhappiness prevails. What is the solution? I myself, born and raised in a top materialistic western country have undergone this the past 2 years. I could have easily become a criminal but Srila Prabhupada explains Vaisnava philosophy so perfectly, that I am forced to accept the results of my karma and try to perform devotional service. This means, now in western society, ones has to adopt the lifestyle. Ideally a Krishna Consiouss Farm Community would be the way to go but since that is being sabotaged, one can get a job and try his best. Isn’t this better then becoming a criminal? Do these western materialistic sense gratifying institutions have any answer on how to help one get a job and room to live in? Is there an alternative? The only thing people like you can do is critise. Why do you not come up with a solution for World Peace? Srila Prabhupada physically left in 1977. In 2011!! I got to know him through his books and lectures and THAT saved me for becoming a criminal. Somehow I also got into contact with those who appoint themselves as Guru’s. I managed to keep away because of intelligence and knowledge of Srila Prabbupada’s original books. How about that? So yes, ISKCON today, since 1977, has been compromised, still Srila Prabhupada is here trhough his speech and books. Now even those are being modified! Why? Ask your self this question before insulting. What happens after death? Can you explain that? You have such a big mouth. Insulting a devotee of Krishna (one who has given his life to preach Krishna Consiousness) is the gravest insult. After death, the Yama-dutas will present you the bill. Just wait, mister big mouth. Where do you live? In a western country? There are people on this planet who owe alot to Srila Prabhupada’s troubles, be carefull when you insult. Also, the fact that those 11 ritviks deviated, proves that devotional service is not ment for everyone afterall, while it does look like it is easily done. This also proves that followers should be cent percent knowledgeble about the Vaisnava philosophy (Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Isopanisad, Nectar of Devotion and Nectar of Instruction, unchanged from before 1977). Then one easily exposes the ones who appoint themselves. But do these “devotees” of ISKCON do that? Answer: NO!! So the fault lies with lazy sense gratifyers who want to cheat and who do not want to follow 100% Srila Prabhupada orders. Think about this very carefully. People should be suspisous indeed but no way does that mean that one should not become a devotee of Krishna (God as the Supreme Person) Jaya Prabhupada unchanged books and lectures! Hare Krishna!! March 27, 2018 - 9:12 am Reply OneMind: Srila Prabhupada wrote books on Krishna philosophy because he was ordered by his spiritual master to write books. To blame Prabhupada or his teachings for the failure of ISKCON is only an indication what happens when Prabhupada or his teachings are misunderstood and misused, or not followed in fullness. Did Prabhupada know this, and did he say or do anything to make this not happen? Yes he knew it, as he warned his followers and disciples every minute and every second, in books, letters and lectures. Maybe Prabhupada should not have given us any knowledge about Krishna at all because he knew it would be a failure and grossly misused. But he was a true brahmana, and brahmana is not concerned about the consequences of his actions. He performs his duty perfectly and leaves the results to Krishna. Krishna will take care of everything. So, are we then to blame Krishna? Why Krishna, if he is Supreme Lord, did not protect and save Prabhupada’s ISKCON? He wouldn’t, as Prabhupada explains, because Krishna knows everyone’s heart. Krishna knows everyone’s inner motives better than anyone else. So let just leave everything to Krishna, investigate your own heart, and real knowledge will come, and everything will be clear. And, if you want to know Srila Prabhupada and Krishna better, just read his books. Krishna cults (ISKCON) and secular governments will definitely lead you to hell, but you will always remember Srila Prabhupada’s books which saved you from the greatest danger, even you still might not achieve the perfection after all, and you will thank Srila Prabhupada for that. August 17, 2018 - 4:54 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: If I have offended, please forgive. When you investigate, there will be alot of websites dedicated to the deviation. Here is one: https://sites.google.com/view/prabhupadasoriginalbooks Email: firstname.lastname@example.org March 27, 2018 - 9:17 am Reply Marilyn: My brother joined this HK cult and has cut off all contact with his family, and we have had no contact with him or his children for the past 15 years. His wife who introduced him to the cult refused to even let him come and visit our father on his deathbed, as we are unclean and a “bad influence” and therefore we must not be associated with. I think this religion is extremely harmful. My brother has now disappeared and gone to live on the streets, and even his wife does not know where he is. We do not know if he is even still alive. I cannot say one positive thing about this cult. March 27, 2018 - 7:05 pm Reply gaurarader: I’m sorry to hear that, and thanks for sharing. You’re certainly not alone. March 27, 2018 - 7:11 pm Reply Marilyn: Thank you Gaurarader. The more I research this, the more evidence I see for the suffering this kind of religion causes to families and individuals. I was very hurt by this behaviour from my brother for many years, but now I see that it is happening to many other people, and it has allowed me to stop taking it personally and, to some extent, find peace and accept what has happened. I am very grateful for websites like this one, which has helped me see that I am not alone! March 27, 2018 - 7:24 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: I understand that when a loved one chooses to go in this direction, that it can be painful. But he should have explained the Vaisnava philosophy. Why did he join? And didn’t he ask to you and your family to atleast read some books explaining why he does what he does? It is also possible to work and life with your family and show what Krishna Consiousness is all about. I to wanted to leave everything and join but since I discovered the deviation, I decided te again keep in touch with family and friends, get a job and my own rented room and from there on live in Krishna Consiousness. The explanation it that we are a Soul and not the body. This means that “your” familiy are those Souls in the bodies to whom you are related by blood and birthplace. But since it turns out that we, the living entities, are Souls, this means that all living creatures on this planet are family of eachother. So the formula for world peace is here, readily available. The reason why most people do not want to associate with their family (by bodily relation) is because these “family” members absolutely refuse to show even respect to Krishna Consiousness. This is why alot do not want to associate with family anymore. Also, did you have a perfect relationship in your youth with your brother? People also look at the past and think: I have been humiliated, insulted, people who are suppose to be my own “family” treated me like garbage. So now I can leave and be happy, still these “family” members have to mingle. Alot of people like you think you are perfect and that you have done no wrong. But look at your history, people were extremely unhappy with their lives, that’s why they were looking for a way out. And that way out is Srila Prabhupada. Unfortunately, the enemies of this movement have infiltrated and sabotaged. Very soon, Mother Nature will present the bill. No worries, you people are such nice and perfect people, you never hurted any living being in your current lives didn’t you? March 28, 2018 - 7:26 am Reply Marilyn: If he was so happy in this religion, why did he now walk out on his wife and family and disappear to live on the street? I was happy to accept his choices and respect his beliefs as long as he was happy but this is surely not the actions of a content, happy person who is at peace. March 28, 2018 - 7:36 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: When I mention, knowing the Vaisnava philosophy, I do mean that you must understand it. Alot of people do not take the trouble to understand why someone takes the decision. First of all, Krishna Consiousness is NOT a religion. Second of all, every person comes alone on the planet. One is born alone, one dies alone. What is the definition of being happy? Your definition is different compared to others. You are under the illusion that having a wife and family results in happiness. I posted more questions and I see that you are not answering them. Only thing you can do is juggle with words using terms like happy and peace as if people in western society know what happiness and being in peace means. I will then repeat: Didn’t your brother explain the Vaisnava philosophy? And if he didn’t, why didn’t you or your familymembers who obviously love your brother so much, try to get to the bottom of this cult? This means you must investigate their way of living and come with counter arguments. Explain, from you great western materialistic viewpoint, that joining this sect is pure evil and that he was way better of working like an ass for ungratefull wive, children, familymembers and other members of the great western materialistic society. Why didn’t you, or your family do that? March 28, 2018 - 9:32 am Reply Marilyn: Thank you for providing a perfect example of how this cult brainwashes people. March 28, 2018 - 10:01 am Vichal Gajapersad: And thank you for proving that most on this planet belong to the four types of Souls in human bodies who do not surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Easy isn’t it? To say that I am brainwashed but you cannot come with logical counter arguments. I am talking English, don’t you or your familymembers speak and understand English? Now I understand why your brother left you, you simply can’t talk with people like you. Instead of answering you come with such a dumb remark. I thank you again and again for the opportunity to expose “humans” like you. Have fun watching television and believing everything your democratic government tells you. Very soon you will discover if that was the truth. March 28, 2018 - 10:55 am Vichal Gajapersad: How is it to eat meat, fish and eggs? How is it to have illicit sex? How is it to gamble? How is it to drink tea and coffee or to take drugs? All the above is now being done in current great western society which is full of people brainwashed with television, sports and all kinds of western nonesense. Then these people say that the Veda’s are superstitious books, yet in the same Veda’s it is stated how the material universe was created, How Great God is and that He loves us and wants us back. One has to not gratify the senses and perform devotional service. It is stated that your own familymembers will want to pose themselfes as saviours yet they cannot help provide one with meaningful work, shelter and education which fill make a person eternal happy. In the same Veda’s the punishment is described what happens when one deviates from the rules. Is this the reason why atheists come with such lame excuses? Why can’t these “people” answer questions and come with counter-arguments? How does a cult brainwash people? How does a democratic government in western society does not do that? Can you explain? Wern’t you brainwashed in western society schools that all are equal, that the West is for peace and prosperity around the globe? That woman and man are equal? All this is not true! So who is being brainwashed here? Come with logical counter-arguments, I challenge all you impersonalists and atheists! I am here all alone (with Krishna in my heart) and you all are 9 billion (also with Krishna in your hearts). Come on! Take some chemicals and produce life randomly. That’s what you believe right? We all are descendants of monkeys right? We all can go to the Moon planet right? We went there in the 60s but after that there was no need right? Yeah that is so true. And now we go to Mars, keep paying taxes for this, western society dumbass. March 28, 2018 - 11:08 am Reply IAmChaitanya: One of my relatives had brought home the “Bhagwad Gita as it is.” One day I just started to read it, and I was shocked. Hinduism is a very tolerant religion thwt respects other sects, religions, and faiths. Prabhupada has not only mistranslated the text and added words here and there, but the moment you point it out on a forum, his disciples write lengthy replies with a hundred citations. All these citations will be from Prabhupada’s books or commentaries. Hinduism does not claim Krishna to be the “Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Krishna was God Vishnu in human form. He was human: He was born and He died. Krishna cannot be “the God” because the concept of one God above the rest does not exist in Hinduism. “Krishna” does not stay in Golok with “Radha rani.” He stays in Kshirsagar with His consort Lakshmi and His name is Vishnu, not Krishna. Two Gods are supposed to be most powerful: Vishnu and Shiva. Yet, Prabhupada says that Shiva is inferior to Krishna saying that Shiva has 26% of the power of Krishna. This is not only ridiculous but also does not have any proper source and is blasphemous for those of us who believe in both Shiva and Vishnu. In addition to them 330 million energies are called Deva. The head of these is Indra, the King of Gods. Prabhupada calls Him the “King of the Demigods.” Blasphemy 2. The ISKCON cult is a club. They want you to join it, and in return, they’ll grant you mukti. Too bad that you won’t be alive for it. August 24, 2018 - 3:35 am Reply OneMind: For your information please also read the “Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled” book. It is available online. After getting to know about the truth of religions, you may find Prabhupada’s cult as the most revealing evidence which supports those claims. Nothing more to be added, for the sake of argument. Only the blind followers and deceivers would find this book unpleasant. August 24, 2018 - 1:49 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: So now, ISKCON may come over as some crazy cult with crazy people. But how come, so many people in the 60s and 70s joined the Movement? Also, when reading Bhagavad Gita As It Is, without a critical mindset but with an inquisitive mindset (You really want to know who we are, why we are dying, who good things happen to some and some get only bad things, or a combination of these happenings, why are we getting older, sicker and we die? Why is there no peace and love amongst all human beings and animals?) If you have such questions in your heart, then you should read Srila Prabhupada’s books. If you do not have these questions and if you enjoy life and do not care for the suffering of other living entities, then replies like yours will make “sense”. This is because Shri Krishna, as the Supersoul, gives us what we want. If we do not want to believe in the explanations given by His representative, then we will get the “knowledge” to go away from the explanation. You will present the explanation as if it was bogus, as you have done with your reply. You say “The concept of One God above the rest does not exist in Hinduism”. This is a statement of yours. Have you any idea how this comes over to people who actually studied the subject religion and history? 2 Gods are powerful? Are you listening to yourself? The Source are the literature given to us by the Guru parampara. That Lord Shiva has less power is described by Srila Jiva Gisvami. So again, with your answer, you seem not to want to know. I am wondering, where did you get your knowledge from? How come you are concluding these? And, again, we all start with the valid questions: Why do we get born, we get older, we get sick and eventually we die. All these 4 processes bring imense pain. Yet we all have to go through this, why? And do you have a solution for these pains? If we should not be religious, then we should be like atheists, right? So we should not be honest but lie, we should not be clean, but have sex with everyone we meet, we should not be austere but we should smoke marhuana and drink lots of alcohol, we should not be mercyful but kill all animals and eat their corpse because it gives us vitamins, right? We are already doing the above, in the Western Civilized nations of today, aren’t we? After let’s say 70/80 years, having eaten so many vitamins (corpses), still we get diseases, we get old and we die. So what is the value of not being religious, could you explain? Thank you! August 26, 2018 - 9:26 am Reply OneMind: The science calls this physical and mental disorder. This is what Krishna cult produces. It is a disease. And it should be treated so it is not spread to the healthy people. August 26, 2018 - 10:08 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: You say: “The science”. Who decides what “the science” is? Also, knowing that there are the pains of birth. old age, disease and death and thinking that you can “fix” this, and then calling the ways to fix these pains (by cloning, by medicine, by plastic surgury and death cannot be fixed, can it?), science, is actually physical and mental disorder. I know that you have witnessed and gone through some hard times with ISKCON, does not mean that the Vedic philosophy (the science of all sciences, which means to know, how to get out of birth and death, THAT IS SCIENCE, everything else is a mental disorder, as proven by the current status of the world, lead by Western Societies) is wrong. Me to have gone through all that but not as extensive (like joing their ashrams etc). Anyway, I am not a devotee, yet this Krishna Consciousness, as explained by Srila Prabhupada, has saved me from becoming a criminal, a drugaddict, someone who does not like women that much to some one who want to follow the rules and laws of society, not to use drugs and to treat all women as my own MOTHER. Krishna Consciousness helps! The Krishna Cult, as know today as ISKCON led by GBC and their blind followers, well they need to have a check up, I agree! August 26, 2018 - 10:22 am Reply OneMind: The science is common sense. Experiencial knowledge. And Krishna cult principle is to go against science, againts subjective experience. They preach the doctrine of illusion, that everyone, including scientists are in illusion. There is no use in arguing with this cult, because they do not operate on the principle of common sense, but blindly following their scriptures and gurus who wrote those scriptures as absolute truth. It may be called science, but who guarantees their authenticity. It is higly disputable, and their multifaced nature, or hypocrisy, brings many questions if their path is truly unique and delivering people from miseries, and making them happy, as promised in their books and teachings. From my personal viewpoint and experience of Krsna cult, and I am right to call it a scientific evidence, it does not give the complete solution to the problems of life, but while solving certain problems, it creates other problems, sometimes even worse. Althouh it makes right assertions that problems in the world exist, they are not the only one. I may say this is partly due to ignoring or minimizing the importance of the modern science which is a result of knowledge gathered over centuries of human experience and research. August 26, 2018 - 11:59 am Vichal Gajapersad: If Krishna Consciousness does not bring happiness, how do you explain all those people in the Movement? I myself am not a singer or a dancer. Nor do I distribute the Hare Krishna literature. I feel that people, when geniunely interested, will be led by the Supersoul Himself. You say common sense. This sense is gained from the mind. One of the questions a asked was: Who determines what science is? And how knowledge is gained? When using the ascending process (aroha pantha), one uses pratyaksa (sense preception, like eyes, ears etc) and anumana (the mind). It is explained that when one uses this method, the knowledge gained is flawed. Every human is different when using the material elements. Using the descending process (avaroha ptantha), one uses sabda (transcendental sound, which is there in the Veda’s). Now to make the story short, it is agreed upon that some if not all the ISKCON GBC leaders, deviate from the original order. When this happens, those joining these leaders, will have to go through some bad stuff (like you did, like I did). How did we allow this? How did the government allow this? How did all those followers (donators etc) allow this to happen? The answer is simple: Everyone of us does not know the Vedic philosophy as explained by Srila Prabhupada himself. Nor did we listen to his lectures and we also do not follow his order: To live life as a human. We should have Mercy, be Truthful, be Cleanliness and be Austere. Also we should chant the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra, we should propagate Krishna Consciousness and we should live together with devotees. Does this all happen? Did this all happen during our times when we were with ISKCON? Anwer: No! It is understandable to react like you have. This all is a test. Again, the questions asked in the previous post have not been answered. The reason is that one cannot come up with arguments against it. I should know, I tried, and in the mean time somehow do something for devotional service. Krishna Consciousness is there for those who want it and it is not there for those who do not want it. If you do not want it, you will get opportunity not to have it. August 26, 2018 - 2:02 pm OneMind: The test is learn to not believe in everything the book says. This was the lesson. And this is what my father says also. One should use his senses, mind and intelligence to distinguish the right from wrong, the honest from dishonest, the useful from useless, the practical from impractical. You can speak directly from the book, and I can speak directly from my personal experience, but if I am cheated once because I was blindly following some book, or the representative of the book, resulting with my physical and mental disorder, or inability to deal with my personal needs and the people I was related to, it would be really naive to follow the same book again, but this time taking a different approach, as the first approach did not work as expected. Maybe in another body, but not in this burned one. I cannot have trust in the books any more, not in the sense of accepting them blindly, without any critical consideration. I am not saying you should follow my path. If you think you are on the right way, go ahead, as this is your path that you feel the most comfortable with. But I am not. I am only to say that Krishna cult is not what it was being advertised to me, and warn of the dangers if one gives all his or her trust to a person or the book before hardly knowing that person in reality. Krishna consciousness is advertised as a personal religion, something that one cannot experience in this “material” world, but only with a personal god Krishna and his devotees. When I took Krishna consciousness seriously, I have realized that there was a lack of proper trust, honesty and healthy reciprocation. I consider this as a kind of imposture and exploitation, from those to whom you have given your body, mind and your whole self, for the sake of some unknown “higher purpose”, which only Krishna or Prabhupada know. Even I had a little attraction for Krishna consciousness in the beginning, like many who are joining because they felt some bliss, after these incidents, it has faded away. I do not feel attraction for Krishna as I used to have when I first read Krishna book. I also doubt if Krishna exists or not, because of some philosophical deviations. But this point I cannot discuss, as I understand that transcendental topics, those which are beyond sensual experience, you cannot argue about. This is a matter of having faith or not having faith, like any other religion, like Christianity, Buddhism, etc. And I do not have faith in Krishna, Krishna cult and Krishna consciousness any more. It is a personal decision, and I stand for it firmly. August 26, 2018 - 7:50 pm Vichal Gajapersad: I think it is more a personal taste. Also, as persons ourself, we should look in the mirror. For example, I am criticizing devotees, yet I myself am not a devotee! How about that 🙂 But I do understand how you feel. I hope that not just you but all living entities may find eternal happiness and love. Were to get that? That eternal feeling. Now it is all about temporary things. The only subject which discussed the world eternal is Krishna Consciousness. All other subjects, do not discuss the word eternal. Everyone has a personal choise and has the right to stand by it! Peace! August 27, 2018 - 6:03 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: I found a website. This is one of the reasons why people are disappointed. ISKCON GBC should have done this better. Ofcourse, we should watch out for the pseudo devotees and the four types of men, who do not surrender to Krishna (Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Chapter 7, vers 15). They do everything to distort the true meaning of the Veda’s: https://sites.google.com/view/light-of-the-bhagavata/lob-text-20 Hope this helps. Krishna Consciousness is not at fault here. We ourselves are at fault because we did not follow the order of Srila Prabhupada, and thus the four types of men could very easily infiltrate and usurp ISKCON which results in the current situation we have now. Peace, Hare Krishna! August 31, 2018 - 12:18 pm Reply OneMind: It is beyond my comprehension of who or what is Krishna, but the way how ISKCON is representing (H)im and Vedic civilization, is not what I have understood by reading Prabhupada’s books. Or I am wrong, or ISKCON should start work within Prabhupada’s framework, as he visioned himself. The problem is not whether Vedas are right or wrong, but the hypocrisy of praising Vedas as infallible, and not following them strictly, but taking little here and little there, which just shows a lack of full faith in the Vedas. And how is this going to prove anyone that Vedas are divine, and should be followed? The words in the Vedas have no meaning if they are not demonstrable and practical. It is also a cheating way to sell or distribute such knowledge without a firm ground on which you can apply that knowledge. Whatever Prabhupada established is ruined, or exists in a perverted form. I have no intention to analyze or consider anything which is not organized properly, and finding faults within any unorganized institution is a waste of time and energy, since I am not god or any powerful being who can understand what is going on, but ordinary human being with weaknesses and strengths. Maybe it is only me who is idealizing here, and others do not find any serious reason to start questioning the authenticity of ISKCON, Prabhupada or Krishna, but this is what I am, and I am not pretending to be something I am not and can never be. I have also certain expectations, and this is my level of consciousness. Not that everyone should become like automation machine, where anyone can press a button, and expect that it must run differently than it was designed. I am considering here three different kinds of consciousness: Krishna consciousness, Prabhupada consciousness, and your and my consciousness. They are all different, but here I can only relate to my consciousness and your consciousness, as we are exchanging messages personally. I have no idea what is Krishna consciousness or Prabhupada consciousness, apart from a few mechanic recordings and editing which I cannot consider more relevant than our discussion, as I cannot relate to them personally. Even after 30 years of reading Prabhupada’s books, joining the movement, taking initiation, following all the rules and regulations, and chanting Hare Krishna mantra, I still did not get Krishna consciousness or Prabhupada consciousness as described in the books. And also longer I stayed in ISKCON more I felt myself being teared apart, and my future uncertain, both material and spiritual. And I realized this is not the message of the Bhagavad-gita. So, I left ISKCON. So, to be honest, I failed, or maybe I am not, but certainly the ISKCON and general society is seeing me as failed. This is the image I have created by “following” Prabhupada’s books. So, as I have said, I am not able to correct the mistakes and damages I have done to myself or others. And I am not going to repeat the same thing again uncertain of the consequences it can bring on the way. If another opportunity for the self-realization or God realization is given, it will certainly be in another body, not this demolished one. Whatever it may be, I have a full appreciation of the right and honest path. The life is the most valuable good and it would be a great loss not to use it in its best capacity. And thank you for giving your time and trying to assist me. Usually I never forget the moments of life when people relate on deeper levels, and not superficially or narrow-minded. It was a great pleasure to speak with you, and possibly one day certain misconceptions will be settled up and bring us closer to that unknown one which we are all supposed to be originating from. You may call it Krishna or whatever. It does not matter, as long you are certain that you have reached the final goal of life. August 31, 2018 - 6:30 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: When one associates with something related to Krishna, like joining ISKCON, or frequently visiting temples and doing service, “taking initiation” like you said it or reading Srila Prabhupada’s (modified) books, we should think about the reasons of doing these things. Why did you do these things? Why join? Why go to the temple? Why take initiation? Why read Srila Prabhupada’s books? Especially when you say, after reading Srila Prabhupada’s books, you do not know who Krishna is, it shows you where not genuine. When you read his books, you’ll also listen to his lectures. You can EASILY see who is deviating and not. Then why did you stay so long in ISKCON? Also, you know, that Srila Prabhupada is the ONLY acarya. Initiation, after he left the earth physically, can be taken from him by reading his books and listening to his lectures. NEVER read someone else’s books or listen to someone else’s lectures (like so many ISKCON “Guru’s” have and do). This has resulted in your and mine current situation. We have associated with these people and that’s why we are where we are today. We did not “follow” Srila Prabhupada, because if we did, we would have never reached our current situation. I have talked with a few others as well, who also have gone through what we have gone through, and what amazes me is that, allmost all of them, have left ISKCON and have taken up a life of sense gratification. Also they say, like you, that they have created a negative image of themselves, destroyed themselves by following Srila Prabhupada. Yes, ISKCON has deviated but that does not mean that Srila Prabhupada is responsible. Responsible are we, because we cannot correct ISKCON. Instead we come to websites like these and write a comment and then continue our life here in Western Society, waiting on our welfare checks to arrive. Also no-one wants to hire us for work (at least that is my case), so the motivation to again re-join Western Society is so low. This is because Krishna is testing us. If we are materially absorbed, these will be difficult times for us. But when you are familiar with Srila Prabhupada’s unmodified books and lectures, you can stand through it. This is the only thing what is saving me right now! Also, if you are not familiar with history, also known as Mahabharata (occured at the end of Dvapara Yuga, we now are in the Kali Yuga), then going into Bhagavad Gita As It Is and thus knowing who Krishna and Srila Prabhupada are, will be difficult. My startpoint in Krishna Consciousness was from there. Maybe that’s why when you left ISKCON, you became averse to Krishna Consciousness and when I left, I did not. Still, let’s make the best of our lifes indeed, and try to do something worthwhile for others. Everyone gets what he/she wants. So great is Krishna and especially his Messenger Srila Prabhupada. I thank you as well, my friend, because I feel I cannot talk with anyone about this subject. I talk little but about this subject I can speak hours and hours because it has taken over my life. I am sad and happy. Sad because you went through all this and are now in your current position. Happy because we can talk about it and see that you can explain your viewpoint which inturn gives me valueable information. Take care, indeed, make something of your life and help others. Peace, Hare Krishna brother! August 31, 2018 - 8:03 pm Reply OneMind: “I have talked with a few others as well, who also have gone through what we have gone through, and what amazes me is that, allmost all of them, have left ISKCON and have taken up a life of sense gratification. Also they say, like you, that they have created a negative image of themselves, destroyed themselves by following Srila Prabhupada.” Let me talk philosophically on this point. “[They have taken up] a life of sense gratification.” This is a perfect example of how Krishna cult is “brainwashing” its people. By speaking falsely, and also subtly impressing upon a mind a sense of guilt or shame, by humiliation, not considering the circumstances. The victims who were satisfying the gross or subtle senses of cruel men in the cult, which Prabhupada technically calls “extended sense gratification”, and realizing they were ill-treated, have now taken up a life of [personal] sense gratification, which may also be ill-treating them (smoking, drinking, gambling, meat eating)? And which one should be corrected? Both. But, if you say, “[they] have taken up”, you are suggesting that after leaving ISKCON the victims are “ill-treated” (emphasis mine), and before they were not, they were “only creating a negative image of themselves, destroying themselves”, and this is the reason why they left, because of their fault. And who is responsible? Not Prabhupada? We are only responsible? And why not Prabhupada? It is his ISKCON, his house. Prabhupada’s statue is there, and it is being worshiped. That means Prabhupada is the master of the house. I am using a simple common sense. If something bad is happening in the house, if big children are mistreating small children, in the father’s house, who’s fault is this. It is the father’s fault. He is the main responsible. If you say father is gone or died, how he can be responsible? Then find someone else, the oldest child, let him be responsible. Someone has to be responsible. Don’t be a maya-vadi, an impersonalist. The (F)ISKCON, is made an impersonal organization, so no one can take responsibility. It is all “Maya’s punishment”, for our purification, because we are going against the “order of Srila Prabhupada”. This is maya-vada. This is more dangerous than “a life of sense gratification.” We should be fully against maya-vada or impersonalism or irresponibility, and less about so-called “sense gratification.” You should take the responsibility for what you are doing. Good parents take responsibility in raising their children. Whatever happens to the child, or the child does, the parents will take personal responsibility. They will never point their fingers to the child, knowing that the child is still a child, his brain in not developed yet. It is not difficult to differentiate a fake from genuine. Krishna cult (ISKCON GBC) is a pure fake, and Prabhupada is the main responsible for this situation in ISKCON, or if not Prabhupada then it is his spiritual master. Also, in Krishna cult no sign of any “positive” improvement appears, or seem to appear in the near future. It looks doomed forever. Krishna cult is destroying people’s lives. This is a fact. And if this is what Krishna or Prabhupada want, then let it be. But don’t say it is not Krishna’s or Prabhupada’s fault. This is maya-vada. Now, you may go on and preach “Krishna consciousness” to another planet, like Prabhupada did when he left India. If you can’t fix mess in your own house, then go somewhere else, where people are unaware of the possible outcome. And don’t forget to take personal responsibility with you. This is the most important ingredient to separate those who are mayavadis from those who are bhaktas. And if you say that Prabhupada is still not responsible for ISKCON, then you are preaching impersonalism. Vaishnavas are not impersonalists, they take personal responsibility for their preaching, and people may be interested in Krishna philosophy. Otherwise, you are chasing storms, or as Prabhupada says, “beating empty husks of grain”. September 5, 2018 - 10:41 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: You continue to try to put blame on the founder acarya, yet when you are confronted on issues like: -the philosophy (what is Krishna Consciousness all about, you have not talked about this, Only blabering about how Krishna Cult is bad and Srila Prabhupada is responsible) -that you were years in ISKCON, while the abuse was going on and stayed for so long (why did you stay in the Krishna Cult for so long? How all of a sudden you leave the cult? -that you do not talk about history, like Mahabharata (you seem to be an imposter, one of the four types of men who do not surrender to God, you can only criticize yet do not look in the mirror) -you do not give a solution to world peace. You only react to critize Krishna Cult, yet on all other points: pains of birth, death, old age and disease, you have no solution. -you have no answer on the fact that people are miserable on this planet. Western Society is supposed to be so great, where is the solution to world peace? You have no answer. -have you ever chanted Hare Krishna with a genuine inquisitive heart? How can one person be responsible for another´s action? This proves you are not genuine. You are a criticizer of a pure devotee and in between you present your self as if you are a know it all. Thanks to Srila Prabhupada people like you can be exposed easily. Giving fault to Srila Prabhupada anad Sri Krishna IS Mayavada. Impersonalism means that you do not agree God to be the Supreme Person and because you have failed in spiritual life, you criticize the messenger as well. Bhaktas NEVER criticize Sri Krishna and Srila Prabhupada like you just did. It is YOU who is a Mayavadi and then you try to put the chain the other way around. I would love to meet you personally. Do you want to meet? And tell this to my face? So if the four types of men who do not surrender to Krishna (Bhagavad Gita As It Is, chapter 7, vers 15) infiltrate ISKCON and destroy lifes of the chewed followers (who do not study Srila Prabhupadas books), is that Srila Prabhupadas fault? Are you some sort of an idiot? Vaisnavas are not cowards, when Krishna and Srila Prabhupada are being attacked by the likes of you, we respond. People like you are a danger to the world. You are destroying lives by making such dumb posts. Why dont you reply to the questions? Instead blame it. You joined ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada got poisoned! How dumb can you be? You are so funny, you deny Sri Krishna, Srila Prabhupada, and yet talk about others being impersonal? I really would like to meet you personally. September 5, 2018 - 11:21 am Vichal Gajapersad: It is YOUR OWN DUMB fault that you stayed at ISKCON for so many years, and afterwards you left. Why after so many years? People should visit ISKCON AFTER reading Srila Prabhupadaś unmodified books, then visit ISKCON, then after one program, find out very easily that they are deviating and then NEVER associate with them again OR try to correct the situation. YOU DID NONE OF THIS. Then why blame? You are not fit for Vedic philosophy. You Sir, are like an ass, dog or a pig. Have fun with eating, sleeping, having sex (producing the most dumbest of animals you call humans) and defending (like you are defending yourself right now, thinking that sense gratification is the all and all, like dogs and pigs do). Again some questions (of the so many which you have not answered): And talk philosophically about this: -Why does birth exist? -Why go through the pains of birth? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for birth? -Why does disease exist? -Why go through the pains of diseases? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for diseases? -Why does old age exist? -Why go through the pains of old age? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for old age? -Why does death exist? -Why go through the pains of death? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for death? Forget Krishna Consciousness, Krishna Cult, Sri Krishna or Srila Prabhupada! You are to dumb to understand these transcendental subjects. ANSWER ABOVE QUESTIONS, these are genuine questions and YOU have neglected to answer these questions! Why? Because YOU are an ass, lowest of the lowest, one who has a mental disorder and a flat out atheist in one. ANSWER the questions in this post. Yet you dumb sense gratifyer will not do that! Why? September 5, 2018 - 11:33 am Vichal Gajapersad: Krishna is great and so is His messenger, Srila Prabhupada. Corrected a typo there. August 31, 2018 - 8:13 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: What sort of a name is OneMine? My name is VICHAL GAJAPERSAD! You got that? Coward! September 5, 2018 - 11:23 am Reply OneMind: I have no time to read all your insulting words. You are just exposing the real face of Krishna cult, and that it is a very dangerous cult, and people should avoid it, so they don’t get hurt. You are frightening people, and expect they will come to you. Thank you, but you did not leave any good impression of Krishna cult. OneMind is my hidden name, used to protect myself from people like you, over Internet. And you should also hide your personal name. You may take it as my good advice. September 5, 2018 - 11:51 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: You are also insulting, using masked words to entice people to go away from Krishna Consciousness. You say you are against ISKCON, Krishna Cult (which I am also) but you are also against Krishna Consiousness in general. This means you are an imposter and answering people like you is very good! You did not respons to my initial queries, this means you have a hidden agenda. You pretend to be a genuine human but since you insulted Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krishna, you are lower then wormstool of worms found on the stool of the dog and the pig. I am not a devotee, I you read all messages instead of selectively reading some of them to promote your disgusting sense gratifying agenda, you would know that. I do NOT want people to COME to me. This shows that you probably wanted to become an ISKCON Guru, but they kicked you out and now you are barking against them. The fact that you use a hidden name proves your agenda and who you are. You are not genuine. You are a lier. And then you advice me to lie as well? Thanks for exposing your real face. Take my advice, do not respond without reading the content of peopleś post. You come over as a genuine ass. -Why does birth exist? -Why go through the pains of birth? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for birth? -Why does disease exist? -Why go through the pains of diseases? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for diseases? -Why does old age exist? -Why go through the pains of old age? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for old age? -Why does death exist? -Why go through the pains of death? -Why hasnt your great Western Materialist scientist ¨invented¨ a solution for death? And still this OneMind fool did not answer. September 5, 2018 - 11:59 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: You want to talk philosophically?: You believe in democracy right? You believe in your leaders? You believe in voting? For whom did you vote? Here you go: Light of the Bhagawata, text 34: Small pools of water accumulate during the rainy season, and in the autumn they gradually dry up. The little creatures playing in those small pools do not understand that their days are now numbered and will end very soon. Thus they are like foolish men who do not care for the nearing day of their death but become absorbed in the so-called enjoyment of family life. Foolish politicians are too attached to family life. A big politician means a big family man. An ordinary family man is attached to his limited family of wife and children, but big politicians extend the same family feeling to a wider circle and thus become encumbered by false prestige, honor, and self-interest. The politician never retires from politics even if he has enjoyed many covetable posts, like that of minister or president. The older he is, the more he is attached to his false prestige. Even at the fag end of his life he thinks that everything will be spoiled without him. He is so foolish that he does not see that many other politicians who thought like him have come and gone, with no gain or loss for want of them. These family men, big and small, are like the small fish in the pools of water that gradually dry up in the autumn. They are foolish because they think that their attachment to their family, even at the end of their lives, will be able to protect them from the cruel hands of death. As already mentioned, the human life must be divided into four component parts: the student life, the householder life, the preparative life, and the life of dedication to the service of the Lord. One must retire from all sorts of family life, big or small, at the age of fifty, and thus prepare for the next life. That is the process of human culture. The householders are allowed a pension from service so that they can live for a higher cultural life. But foolish men, reluctant even to accept this pension, want to artificially increase the duration of their life. Such foolish men should take lessons from the drying pools of water and should know, in their own interests, that life is eternal, continuing even after death. Only the body changes, whether spiritually or materially. An intelligent man should be careful to know what sort of body is going to be awarded to him, and thus he must prepare for a better life in other planets, even if he is reluctant to go back to Godhead. How on earth will you people answer this sort of text? In YOUR language, you get schooled! Then answer!! September 5, 2018 - 12:03 pm Reply Vichal Gajapersad: I know another person who has gone through what we went through with ISKCON. We left because of the deviation but never did we left Srila Prabhupada, Sri Krishna, Srila Prabhupadaś books and lectures. This person responed to Gaura Rader. Gaura Rader had a website: gaurarader.com where he so proudly not only talks against Krishna Consiousness but against God and religion in general. A fitting reply was given: https://sites.google.com/view/gaurarader However, now the Gaurarader website is offline! Why? You atheists are so dumb it is hilarious. Just wait after death, you will get what all of you deserve. With ALL your knowledge, passion, friends, family, nation, society combined, you cannot even answer above question regarding the pains of birth, old age, disease and death! How sad are you atheists and impersonalists who infiltrate and pretend to be nice humans but in fact you all are nothing but dogs and pigs, gratifying your own senses because you all together can NEVER BE happy in this material universe. Yes, lets collect millions and millions of dollars and go to Mars instead he? Where is World Peace? Is it not so that Western Nations have the most powerful armies, medicines etc? Then why cant you and your scientist arrange for world peace then? September 5, 2018 - 11:42 am Reply Vichal Gajapersad: To those like OneMind, Gaura Rader etc who criticize Vedic philosophy yet have no answer to the pains of birth, old age, disease and death, the following is dedicated: https://sites.google.com/view/krishnacult Also, they say that Hare Krishna devotees are dangerous, yes, the fake ones are as well as those ex-members like they themselves. These people are extremely dangerous for the health of humans and animals alike. One should stay away from these people because they can talk sweetly like a child molestor. They lure you into sense gratification which will lead you to a next life of the animals! Most probably they wanted some position in ISKCON but got kicked out because they were not ¨talented¨ enough like ISKCON GBC ¨Guruś¨ who have more talent to exploit people. Now these people open up websites like these to not only attack there former bosses (whom they served for years and now they are all of a sudden criticizing, strange he?) but also attack Vedic philosophy, Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krishna. This proves their agenda! Watch out for these people!! Hare Krishna! All the glories to Srila Prabhupada!!! September 5, 2018 - 1:05 pm Reply Sebastiaan: Wow, those are some hard replies. I agree that this OneMind fellow seems to be a frustrated person who himself has failed in life (why would he join a cult otherwise?) and now is posting against the Hare Krishna Movement. I have met alot of these Hare Krishna’s and I have to say they are the only people who seem to smile and try to make others smile as well. In my life I am working hard yet am not happy. The explanation by the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya for me is a clear and satisfying answer which helps me to stay calm. Sometimes I lose the temperament but slowly I realise, that chanting and dancing on the Holy Names of the Lord as well as association is very important. This seems to be a great solution to prepare for the ultimate journey, which starts after death. OneMind does not answer the questions posted and only criticizes. Pretty sad, I will chant Hare Krishna and hope I gets released from his current misery. September 5, 2018 - 3:40 pm Reply Hendrik van Gooten: I think insulting or calling names are not approriate. The poor fellows, OneMind and Gaura Rader have experienced some things which can be termed horrifying! I to have met such pseudo devotees! Watch out for them. Now regarding the fact that both OneMind and Gaura Rader are now against God Consciousness and attacking everything related to religion is very sad and all I can do now is quote Srila Prabhupada. Please click underneath link listen to the lecture and read the transcript as well. https://prabhupadavani.org/transcriptions/730928bgbom/ An excerpt on why the Krishna Consciousness Movement must be preserved and pushed on: if we want to understand spiritual truth as it is, then the beginning is Kṛṣṇa’s instruction, this Bhagavad-gītā. Try to understand Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, and if you can understand Bhagavad-gītā nicely, perfectly, then you try to study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam [SB 12.13.18]. Amalaṁ purāṇam, “transcendental Purāṇa.” Purāṇa means supplementary Vedic literature, “that which completes.” Because directly, Vedic literature is very difficult to understand by the common man. Common man… Vedic literature is not for common man; even by the highly learned brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas. Therefore Purāṇas are there and Mahābhārata is also there. Mahābhārata is meant for strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnāṁ trayi na śruti-gocaraḥ [SB 1.4.25]. Strī, woman, śūdra, and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu means born in a brāhmaṇa family, but he’s not a brāhmaṇa. That is the dvija-bandhu, “friend of a brāhmaṇa.” One who is not qualified brāhmaṇa—satyaḥ śamo damas titikṣaḥ arjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]—he’s simply giving his identification, “I am brāhmaṇa,” without any qualification of a brāhmaṇa, he’s called dvija-bandhu, “friend of a brāhmaṇa.” Just like a son of a high-court judge, he can say—he has got the right—that “I am friend of my father, or my son of high-court judge.” That you can say. But you cannot say that you are high-court judge. It is a qualification. Even though you are a son of a high-court judge, if you have no qualification, how you can say that “I am court judge”? But that is going on, especially in India. I have no qualification of a brāhmaṇa, but still, I say, “I’m brāhmaṇa.” But they are called dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu. You cannot say. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. If you have got full knowledge of Brahman, then you are a brāhmaṇa. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. And Nārada Muni says that these qualifications can be acquired by others also. As a son of a brāhmaṇa can, by bad association, disqualify himself, similarly, a son of a non-brāhmaṇa, he can qualify himself. It is education. It is not that it is monopoly by a certain section. No. That is not the Vedic injunction. Vedic injunction is, as it is in the Bhagavad-gītā = catur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Guṇa-karma. You must have the qualities of a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya or a vaiśya or a śūdra. There are four divisions of the society. So if you have the qualification of a brāhmaṇa, guṇa, and if you act as a brāhmaṇa, then you are a brāhmaṇa. You have no qualification, you don’t act as a brāhmaṇa—how you claim yourself as brāhmaṇa? No. That is not allowed. This is śāstric injunction. Nārada Muni says, yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. Every has got qualification. That is very natural. That is very natural. Yasya hi yal-lakṣaṇaṁ syād varṇābhivyanjakam [SB 7.11.35]. To ascertain which class a man belongs, whether he is a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya or vaiśya, there are qualifications. Just like ordinarily we know, we understand an engineer by qualification, a medical practitioner by qualification. We don’t ask, “Whose son you are, Mr. Engineer?” No. If you have got engineer’s qualification, you are engineer. Otherwise, how can you be engineer? Similarly, yasya hi yal-lakṣaṇaṁ syād varṇābhivyanjakam. Varṇa. This is brahminical quality. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, satyaḥ śamo damas titikṣaḥ arjavam. Sauryaṁ tejo yuddhe cāpy apālayanam [Bg. 18.43]—kṣatriya. Kṣatriya must be very heroic. He’ll never go away from fighting. If a kṣatriya is challenged, “I want to fight with you,” “Yes, come on.” That is kṣatriya. Similarly, brāhmaṇa. These are qualifications. So if such qualification is acquired by somebody else, even though he’s not born in that family, Nārada Muni says, tat tenaiva vinirdiśet [SB 7.11.35]. If a brāhmaṇa has not acquired the brahminical qualifications but a kṣatriya qualification or a vaiśya qualification or a śūdra qualification, then, according to the quality, guṇa, and work, he should be ascertained. Similarly, others also. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta [SB 7.11.35]. This is śāstric injunction. And Kṛṣṇa therefore refers to brahma-sūtra padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ [Bg. 13.5]. So we have to accept the Vedānta-sūtra, knowledge, through Vedānta-sūtra. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī says knowledge means veda-jñāna. Vedānta-sūtra jñāna, that is knowledge. Because it is very reasonably stated. Reasonably. Hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ. So Kṛṣṇa gives the authority of Vedānta-sūtra. So we should have to accept the authority of Vedānta-sūtra and try to understand. But Vedānta-sūtra is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and if we accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam… First study Bhagavad-gītā, and when we are actually realized… What is realization Bhagavad-gītā? Realization of Bhagavad-gītā is to know Kṛṣṇa—the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is realization. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ [Caitanya-manjusa]. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7] = “There is no more superior authority than Me.” If we accept that, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, then you’ll learn Bhagavad-gītā. And if you try to make minus Kṛṣṇa, or if you want to take the position of Kṛṣṇa like the Māyāvādīs, then you become a rascal; there is no knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā means to accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And Kṛṣṇa also demands, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the authority. So when one accepts Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, then he can be… Just like after passing your entrance examination, you can be admitted in the degree college, similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the A-B-C-D of spiritual knowledge. People even cannot understand the A-B-C-D, what to speak of graduation, bās, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They have become so fool, so degraded. Simple thing they cannot understand. This is the position. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying its best to make people to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any nonsensical interpretation. This is our mission. But people will not take that. If we give some bluff, that “Kṛṣṇa means… You are also Kṛṣṇa. I am also Kṛṣṇa. Why Kṛṣṇa alone shall be God? You are also God, I am also…,” these things will be very much appreciated. Because he bluffs. But that bluffing may be very pleasing to the demons, but those who are actually student of Bhagavad-gītā, they’ll not accept this bluff. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatāṁ api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ [Bg. 7.3] To understand Kṛṣṇa is difficult job, because Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: “In thousands and thousands of people, one may be interested for siddhi.” What is that siddhi? Siddhi, perfection. The perfection is how to get out of these material clutches, how to stop this repetition of birth, death, old age and… That is called siddhi. So kaścid yatati siddhaye. Who is interested? They are dying like cats and dogs. They have accepted, “Oh, death is…” That’s all. But there is a solution of death, but they are not interested. They are prepared to die like cats and dogs. That’s all. The human life is meant for making solution of birth, death, old age and disease, but they will not take it. “Oh, that’s all right. Let us die.” “You are going to accept a next life as a tree.” “Never mind.” They say like that. “I’ll forget.” “No, you’ll have to stand up seven thousand years in one place.” “That’s all right.” They have become so dull. This is called Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. Very slow, very bad. Manda means very bad. Sumanda-matayo, and if one has got some path or some sect, that is also adulterated, nuisance. Manda-matayoḥ. Manda-bhāgyaḥ, unfortunate. Even people have no idea what he’s going to eat tomorrow. Actually, these things are coming. Manda-bhāgya, most unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ, always disturbed by so many natural disturbances, health disturbances, political disturbances. This is the position. So there is great necessity of pushing on this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so that their life may be perfect. Although it is a difficult job, but still, we are trying our best. If people take advantage of this movement, then the whole problems of his life will be solved. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. September 5, 2018 - 5:53 pm Reply Hendrik van Gooten: To add: OneMind and Gaura Rader do have a point! The Krishna Consciousness Movement today (after 1977), is taken over by GBC who do not promote as their founder (Bhaktivedanta Svami) is saying in above lecture! So I kind of agree that, when one does not follow exactly the order of the founder, the whole movement becomes spoilt. This is why there are scandals (even during the founder’s lifetime). Because pseudo devotees (those who dress like Hare Krishna devotees but do not act like one) have infiltrated and are now enjoying life which is disgusting to see! As explained by the fouder in above lecture, just because you dress like a Vaisnava, does not mean you are a Vaisnava. There are to many of those pseudo devotees who want to be worshiped. When you listen to their lecture, no way that comes close to the lectures of the founder. Perhaps that is something to think about before cursing eachother or attacking the wonderful Vedic philosophy explained by Bhaktivedanta Svami, the only succesor to the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya. September 5, 2018 - 6:21 pm Reply Paul T. Harrison: People who say the philosophy is fine but the abuses are due to some bad people are not informed. The philosophy specifically has a basis that is immoral and insulting to humans. At it’s core, it is a mean spirited authoritarian philosophy of blame. “God could make a better world but he doesn’t because you do not deserve or worse you WANTED it but were made to forget. haha nonsense… Krishna takes no responsibility to speak of, so it is no wonder that when child abuse goes on, they cover it up, also shirking responsibility…. For every bad things that Iskcon leaders did, there is underlying encouragement from the philosophy. March 30, 2019 - 11:48 am Reply gaurarader: Well said!! March 30, 2019 - 1:52 pm Reply OneMind: I would rather say that the philosophy is abusive only if you follow it blindly, without questioning why and does it make sense? ISKCON for the most part is an abusive society, not only philosophically but practically also, as you said. This world exists for those souls who want to enjoy it only for themselves. It is a known fact that the more powerful and strong people on this planet make their living by exploiting or abusing the less powerful and less strong human beings or animals. This is the basic law of nature. And ISKCON is not immune from this law. And ISKCON is even more harmful because they teach that God or Krishna is acting under those laws of nature, that He is also an exploitative or abusive God like we are, or an envious God as the one described by Christians, who takes pleasure from the sufferings of his own children. Well, I think everything is said if we try to understand God with our tiny brain, and comparing God with ourselves. It doesn’t go that way. Christianity and ISKCON go hand by hand. They are both controlled by man-eaters or rakshasas, which are even worse than meat-eaters. March 31, 2019 - 6:45 am Reply Vichal: How are children raised in these “great” western societies? It is hypocrite to say that the childabuse is related to the philosophy. The abuse is nothing but proof that those born and raised in western society, cannot think beyond sex and could not follow some simple rules laid out by the founder-acarya. Basically it is proven how rotten and low mankind has become as illustrated by their greatest achievement so far: The Great Western Doggrace Society. ISKCON now is infiltrated and does not represent the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya. It represents the apasampradayas! Google: Return to square one. April 26, 2019 - 6:43 am Reply Paul T. Harrison: WOW I Iove the article…… It is so good to hear those simple truths…… Great point that humans have progressed and although it is a rough road, that roughness is mainly due to religions and not secularism. Thank you 🙂 July 4, 2019 - 4:01 pm Reply Leave a Reply to CedrickVSier Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Name * Email * Website Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.